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Moving to Canada? Better get a lawyer

The Canadian-U.S. border is pictured in Stanstead, Canada. The old political punchline about moving to Canada if an election goes the wrong way is more than a joke to some -- and a lot harder to pull off than most people suspect.

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It's an oft-told political joke: “If things don’t go my way, I’m moving to Canada.” You hear it every election, but do people actually mean it when they say it?

There's a chance Hannah Frame might be one of those people. She'll be watching the upcoming election very closely from her dorm at Kalamazoo College in Michigan, as the outcome could have major ramifications for the rest of her life.

"I don’t want to live in a country whose fundamental policies I disagree with, and I at least bear some responsibility for living in and perpetuating a system that eventually could hurt me and my neighbors," Frame said.

Frame says she's worried about what might happen if Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney is elected. It could mean the end of the Affordable Care Act, she said, and it could mean going backwards on progress made on immigration, and these are issues she feels strongly about.

She’s not threatening to head north on Nov. 7th. She'd like to finish out college here, and she's got three and a half years to go. But from the sounds of things, she’s pretty set on living in a place that thinks and acts like she does.

"Especially being in Michigan, Canada is right across the border," she said. "It's not super far from home for me."

But Michael Niren, managing partner of Niren and Associates Immigration Lawyers in Toronto, said it's not that easy.

"You can't just up and decide, you know what, I'm gonna move up north and pack my bags," Niren said.

According to Niren, a lot of people are surprised when they hear they have to go through a great expense and a jump a lot of bureaucratic hurdles to become a permanent Canadian citizen. First, Niren says government fees for Canadian residency applications start as high as $1,500, getting more expensive depending on if your spouse or children move with you. And that's not including what it will cost to enlist help from a lawyer like Niren. The total cost depends on the case, he said, but it can be at least a few thousand dollars.

And then it starts to get complicated.

If you have a family member waiting for you, that’s one application system. If you have an actual job offer, that’s a different category. If you’re a single, working American who just wants out, Niren says they’ll ask you lots of questions.

Not a lot of job experience? Your application gets marked down. Over 40 years old or have a bad medical history? Your application gets marked down. Criminal background? Your application gets marked way down. And when it's all said and done, it might just be the case that Canada doesn’t want you.

"The government wants to ensure that people who come to Canada contribute to the economy, who will make an impact – a positive impact in Canada economically or culturally," said Niren.

No matter how difficult the process, somewhere between 7,000 to 10,000 Americans have become permanent residents of Canada since 2007, according to government numbers.

But it's opportunity, rather than politics that's luring them there, according to Demetri Papademetriou, president of the Migration Policy Institute in Washington, D.C.

"It is, you know, the opportunity to actually grow in your job, opportunities for your family and children, a system that seems to work, social protections that make sense," he said. "All of those things enter into the mix."

Papademetriou says for some Americans, the state of the U.S. economy makes the grass in Canada really seem much greener.

"The fact that Canada was not hurt almost at all, or at least not in a significant way by the crisis in 2008, you put all those things together and you find most of the explanation," he said.

But for many Americans who make the move up north, Papademetriou says it won't really be a permanent thing; once they advance their careers, they often return to the U.S.

So what does this mean for people like Hannah Frame?

"Obviously moving is a huge hassle but I’m going to be setting up a new home and I want to set up a home somewhere I feel comfortable," Frame said. "And for me, I think it would be worth it to set up in Canada."

But she says if it doesn’t work out, California could be an option. It’s still pretty progressive, and she’s heard the weather’s better there, too.

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Thomas_Maloney's picture
Thomas_Maloney - Apr 24, 2013

“It might just be the case that Canada doesn't want you” – I agree. With the boom in migration to Canada in the 90s, Canada is now way strictly in their selection process. The easiest way to be a Canadian citizen is to get a permanent job there and even that is no guarantee. I know of so many here in the Brisbane inner suburbs (http://www.supercheapstorage.com.au/storage-facilities/brisbane-facility...) who put all their belongings into a self storage facility after they have gotten to Canada on a job offer. A few returned end of last year having been let go by the company. They said they failed in citizenship application because of the sheer number of applicants and their skills are not longer sought after. Many even had sold their belongings in their storage unit thinking they’re never coming back. How times have changed.

sqrrl1's picture
sqrrl1 - Apr 2, 2013

You don't not need a lawyer. In general, Canada has far fewer lawyers, they charge less, and there's a great deal one can do without them. I guess if your instinct is to contact a lawyer as the reporter did, do not be surprized to find they say you "better get one". Just do some research, fill out paperwork, send in a cheque - all the usual stuff. If you qualify to go to the next step, just sit on the escalator and do what they want.

JasonS's picture
JasonS - Feb 8, 2013

Funny how some threaten to leave their country yet they are the same whiny people who call mexicans illegal aliens and claim they stole their jobs. And now you want to leave this country, canada is too smart and too good for dumb moronic americans to come and tame their country. Those saying "I am moving to Canada" are making a joke, and Canadians living in Canada will not take this seriously neither. Most Canadians asks those planning to move to Canada to "not come here". Canada is a socialist country that rely on its natural resources for money, much like Russia. So If you don`t have good things to say about socialism you shouldn`t go to Canada.
Jason from http://northenloans.ca/

monti's picture
monti - Jan 19, 2013

Adrian Sanders, a Lib Dem MP, asks if the government will tighten the rules to ensure that people can be compelled to give evidence to select committees. http://www.forexprofit4tips.com/

JusJim's picture
JusJim - Oct 31, 2012

Interesting piece, but most interesting was the comments about Canadian immigration restrictions....hmmmm maybe the US can learn something.. restrict crooks, terrorist,unskilled, unhealthy....hmmm... which possibly aided Can. in the insulation of a melt down and massive debt occurring here in the US...hmmm.....I guess not, that would be too easy, eh. Lets just keep the doors open from all the undesirables and give them support, protection etc....hmmm...at who's expense??!!

bubblebustin's picture
bubblebustin - Oct 27, 2012

The caption should be "...better get a cross border tax lawyer", and be prepared to pay for the requirement to report all income and bank account information for the rest of your lives (unless of course you renounce citizenship). The US government punishes those who choose to live abroad, making US persons the least free people on the planet.

Just Me's picture
Just Me - Oct 27, 2012

Well, Hannah, I wish you well. Just one little additional complication this story did not mention.

US Citizenship Taxation.

You will still be subject to filing your 1040s, FBAR and FATCA forms, and meeting all the requirements of Homeland Taxation, other than now it will be much more complicated and expensive to do from another Country. This will be in addition to the higher Canadian taxes you will be paying. A US citizen, uniquely in the world, is required to do both. You will probably need the advice of an International Tax Practitioner.

There are many Canadians right now, that are trying to shed their US Citizenship, so that they no longer are subject to the rules, forms, and penalties associated with failure. So, my advice would be, for you to start your life abroad compliant, and then you can decide later what you want to do about it, if anything. Your life will definitely be more complicated, and expensive than a Homelander, but maybe that is OK for you. It isn't for some.

I would suggest, that you might want to review this amusing, but informative video on youtube entitled:

The Life of the American Abroad. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfWk6yRdwMo

Yes, Canada is consider 'abroad and Offshore', and as such if you fail the compliance test, the IRS is looking for you. FATCA is in your future, and Canadian banks may be required to report your account data to the IRS. If you have never heard the FWHAT? words, FATCA and FBAR, start your research now. Do not be surprised later.

Cheers and good luck with your new life. I would take PK's advice to heart. Move to California. The US really does not want you to live abroad!

lostcause's picture
lostcause - Oct 25, 2012

The way I see it Hannah has two fairly obvious choices that are in line with her liberal principles. First forget the lawyers, silly fees and laws, just become an illegal immigrant. But then why do that when she could move to Massachusetts where they have the health care system she wants.? Oh no, that wouldn't work because the man she is running from, Mitt Romney, gave that state the health care system she wants.

DR's picture
DR - Oct 25, 2012

So Hannah is worried about US immigration policies. But, it seems that Canada has pretty strict immigration policies. Anyone see hypocrisy?

msehphdjd's picture
msehphdjd - Oct 24, 2012

While the story was entertaining and accurate regarding the difficulties of immigrating to Canada (though one does definitely not need a lawyer), it left the impression that folks who say, "I'm moving to Canada" are all talk. Not so. There are actually quite a few of us who moved to Canada after the 2000 and 2004 elections - and would gladly do so again. In fact, my profession has since been removed from the Skilled Worker list of eligible occupations. That thought, alone, gives me the willies. I thank my lucky stars that, while by no means perfect, at least Canada affords me and my family the opportunity to live in a place where we have equality under the law.

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