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An acclaimed Apple critic made up the details

Workers inspect motherboards on a factory line at the Foxconn plant in Shenzen, which was the subject of an retracted episode of the public radio show This American Life featuring the work of Mike Daisey.

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Cathy Lee (Chinese name: Li Guifen) was Mike Daisey’s translator during his trip to China to investigate factory conditions for his monologue “The Agony and Ecstasy of Steve Jobs.” Here, Lee returns to the front gates of the Foxconn factory in the city of Shenzhen to recount details from her original trip.

A protestor in a Steve Jobs mask takes part in a protest against Taiwanese technology giant Foxconn, which manufactures Apple products in China.

Clothes hang from the balconies of Foxconn campus during a rally in the southern Chinese city of Shenzhen following a string of suicides at its Chinese factories turned a spotlight on working conditions.

Apple got a lot of attention recently over conditions in the Chinese factories that make its iPhones and iPads. The public radio show "This American Life" aired an electrifying account of one man’s visit to several factories. The man was Mike Daisey, a storyteller who is widely credited with making people think differently about how their Apple products are made.

It’s Daisey’s story about visiting a Foxconn factory in China where Apple manufactures iPhones and other products. With the help of a Chinese translator, Daisey finds underage workers, poisoned workers, maimed workers, and dismal factory conditions for those who make iPhones and iPads.

“I’m telling you that in my first two hours at my first day at that gate I met workers who were 14 years old…13 years old…12," Daisey recounted. "Do you really think Apple doesn’t know?”

Daisey told This American Life and numerous other news outlets that his account was all true.

But it wasn’t.

For the past year and a half, I’ve reported on Apple’s supply chain in China, where I work as Marketplace’s China Correspondent, based in Shanghai. When I heard Daisey’s story, certain details didn’t sound right. I tracked down Daisey’s Chinese translator to see for myself.

“My mistake, the mistake I truly regret, is that I had it on your show as journalism. And it’s not journalism. It’s theater.” - Mike Daisey

For years, reporters in China have uncovered a sizable list of problems that have shown the dark side of what it’s like to work at factories that assemble Apple products. Mike Daisey would have you believe that he encountered—first-hand—some of the most egregious examples of this history all in just a six-day trip he took to the city of Shenzhen.

Take one example from his monologue—it takes place at a meeting he had with an illegal workers union. He meets a group of workers who’ve been poisoned by the neurotoxin N-Hexane while working on the iPhone assembly line: “…and all these people have been exposed,” he says. “Their hands shake uncontrollably. Most of them…can't even pick up a glass.”

Cathy Lee, Daisey’s translator in Shenzhen, was with Daisey at this meeting in Shenzhen. I met her in the exact place she took Daisey—the gates of Foxconn. So I asked her: “Did you meet people who fit this description?”

“No,” she said.

“So there was nobody who said they were poisoned by hexane?” I continued.

Lee’s answer was the same: “No. Nobody mentioned the Hexane.”

I pressed Cathy to confirm other key details that Daisey reported. Did the guards have guns when you came here with Mike Daisey? With each question I got the same answer from Lee. “No,” or “This is not true.”

Daisey claims he met underage workers at Foxconn. He says he talked to a man whose hand was twisted into a claw from making iPads. He describes visiting factory dorm rooms with beds stacked to the ceiling. But Cathy says none of this happened.

Last week, together with Ira Glass, the host of This American Life Host, I confronted Daisey in an interview. I brought up the workers he says he met who were poisoned by N-hexane. I tell him what Cathy said.

Rob Schmitz: Cathy says you did not talk to workers who were poisoned with hexane.

Mike Daisey: That’s correct.

RS: So you lied about that? That wasn’t what you saw?

MD: I wouldn’t express it that way.

RS: How would you express it?

MD: I would say that I wanted to tell a story that captured the totality of my trip.

Ira Glass: Did you meet workers like that? Or did you just read about the issue?

MD: I met workers in, um, Hong Kong, going to Apple protests who had not been poisoned by hexane but had known people who had been, and it was a constant conversation among those workers.

IG: So you didn’t meet an actual worker who’d been poisoned by hexane.

MD: That’s correct.

Daisey apologized to Ira Glass for not telling the truth to him and his listeners.

“Look. I’m not going to say that I didn’t take a few shortcuts in my passion to be heard. But I stand behind the work,” Daisey said. “My mistake, the mistake I truly regret, is that I had it on your show as journalism. And it’s not journalism. It’s theater.”


This American Life Retracts the Story: This American Life devoted this weekend's episode to a retraction of "Mr. Daisey and the Apple Factory." Listen to the full episode.


This American Life wasn’t the only journalistic outlet for Daisey. For the past year, he’s been in the news constantly: newspaper articles, op-eds, magazine profiles, online news sites. He’s made numerous television appearances—CNN, C-SPAN, Bill Maher. And he usually says things like this, from an appearance on MSNBC a month ago:



What makes this a little complicated is that the things Daisey lied about seeing are things that have actually happened in China: Workers making Apple products have been poisoned by Hexane. Apple’s own audits show (PDF) the company has caught underage workers at a handful of its suppliers. These things are rare, but together, they form an easy-to-understand narrative about Apple.

“People like a very simple narrative,” said Adam Minter, a columnist for Bloomberg who’s spent years visiting more than 150 Chinese factories. He’s writing a book about the scrap recycling industry.

He says the reality of factory conditions in China is complicated—working at Foxconn can be grueling, but most workers will tell you they’re happy to have the job. He says Daisey’s become a media darling because he’s used an emotional performance to focus on a much simpler message:

“Foxconn bad. iPhone bad. Sign a petition. Now you’re good,” Minter says. “That’s a great simple message and it’s going to resonate with a public radio listener. It’s going to resonate with the New York Times reader. And I think that’s one of the reasons he’s had so much traction.”

And Minter says the fact that Daisey has not told the truth to people about what he saw in China won’t have much of an impact on how the public sees this issue.

And Apple will continue to try to clean up its image. The company’s hired an independent auditor to inspect its suppliers throughout China. Charles Duhigg is a New York Times reporter who helped write an investigative series on Apple’s supply chain. He told us that it may be hard to track whether conditions are improving because Apple hasn’t yet released data that can be compared on a year-by-year basis.

“My understanding is that Apple has said that they are going to begin releasing essentially granular data, and so we're looking for that to test the claims that things are improving as a result of Apple going in and demanding changes,” Duhigg said.

And if Apple does become more transparent about its supply chain, that’ll mean one step towards better working conditions, something Mike Daisey has been fighting for all along.

Listen to the full episode of Marketplace from Friday, March 16, to hear the report with an introduction from Kai Ryssdal.

About the author

Rob Schmitz is Marketplace’s China correspondent in Shanghai.

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philipBZ's picture
philipBZ - Mar 19, 2012

"Ira Glass said that "we checked everything that was checkable," or similar words."

He also said, "NPR isn't biased." Shame on you for believing him even after that whopper...

lwc30326's picture
lwc30326 - Mar 19, 2012

Apparently, Mike Daisey is no more trustworthy for any TAL listener to believe. He chose Ira's show to do a 'breitbart': falsying a recording to make himself important.

bmasck's picture
bmasck - Mar 19, 2012

Apple, HP, Dell, Nokia and Motorola Mobility are among Foxcon's major clients ... why does this simple fact elude the public and most journalists? Apple is a leader in transparency on worker's issues and should be applauded for working within the system to reform it. How many low-tech products do you have in your house, workplace or school made in China under far worse conditions and at less pay than iThings?

DR's picture
DR - Mar 19, 2012

"ablesmage" defends Mike Daisey as "theater". This is absurd. He presented his "monologe" so that the listener would think it is fact. In the real world, we call that "lying".

The larger picture is that this has nothing to do with Apple, but everything to do with the culture of China, that treats workers as property.

ablestmage's picture
ablestmage - Mar 19, 2012

Mike Daisey is not a liar. Mike Daisey is a brilliant and successful storyteller who can crank out a yarn and captivate you with it. The piece is theatre, and it has always been theatre. The people who lack the suspension-of-disbelief skill are the ones in uproar. You could call Asimov a liar for not telling the truth about the actual existence of androids, in the same way you're treating Mike Daisey.

It's really interesting to read about the massive critics of Daisey, who simultaneously admit both that the piece was written as a theatre-style performance piece, but then flip-flop over to the factual inaccuracy. Critics can't have both of those positions.

Daisey is very obviously a theatre writer, and people who attend theatre don't go to the theatre for hard-news journalism. Daisey wrote a theatre piece -- before This American Life even thought about using it, and he wrote it AS performance. TAL are the ones who "lied," by putting up a theatre piece as if it were actual journalism. If NBC News aired "Thumbelina" as an expose about the mysterious world of tiny people, would you blame NBC or Hans Christian Andersen?

You were lied to by TAL, the publisher of journalism, not Daisey, the writer of performance works. Daisey is a brilliant writer -- and evidence of that greatness is seen in how people were originally captivated by the performance. That identical work still exists as it was then, and is still just as great.

The people who had emotionally invested in the factuality of a theatre piece are like the aliens from Galaxy Quest. It's like the critics have the head-knowledge that the piece was theatrical, but are still complaining, without really realizing the matter fully.

The most recent TAL episode "Retraction", was handled in a disturbingly inappropriate way. Ira Glass and pals lacked the elementary emotional skills to recognize the work for its brilliance, and edited the interview him for the retraction episode into a one-sided Daisey-bashing. Daisey scarcely admitted any fault and stood by his work as a theatre piece and Ira just could not wrap his head around it.

Ira & Co who took "well..." answers as "yes/no" responses are squarely where the fault lies. When Daisey comes back in later for an additional statement, Ira went full-butthurt when Daisey defended the work as theatrical, expecting Daisey to apologize for Ira's own mistake! Even after it had been well established that the piece was not journalism-calibre detective work, and was a theatre production instead of hard news style, Ira still hounded him for inaccuracies, and so here are you. Are you serious?

When you go to a stand-up routine, you go to laugh, not quibble over the facts. "Oh really? When exactly did you slip on that banana peel, hmm? Was it a Thursday? My sources seem to point to a Wednesday!" Such responses are nonsensical.

When you go to watch a theatre, or a poetry reading, you go for the language, dramatic timing, suspense, tension-and-release, etc. Daisey wrote a fantastic theatre piece, but TAL is the one who took the theatre piece and tried to pass it off on us as hard journalism. Quibbling over the facts, when a pieces is theatre, is completely missing the point. The fact that it is theatre, is, in itself, the full and complete grounds for doubt of it of the piece's journalistic integrity. It's an act. He's an actor. I'm not sure why this is such a hard concept to grasp.

I was really taken by the original broadcast, and wrapped up in it -- I listened to the episode 4 or 5 times fully, because I enjoyed the tension and release techniques, the dramatic pauses, the selective revelation, and wished I could write as well. The facts don't matter. When I learned it was not entirely truthful, my appreciation for the work did not diminish in the slightest. I think Mike displayed a great performance even in the interview itself about the retraction, and suspected his responses were scripted because they worked so well. "I can't say it... No, I'll just go ahead and say it," is classic tension-building. I think he fully realized the potential for the moment and immediately capitalized on it -- with great success.

TAL's inability to press Daisey for solid answers, and instead accepting his vague responses, is what sank the ship, not Daisey himself.

philipBZ's picture
philipBZ - Mar 19, 2012

"Mike Daisey is not a liar. Mike Daisey is a brilliant and successful storyteller who can crank out a yarn and captivate you with it. The piece is theatre, and it has always been theatre."

So the next time TAL does a piece on Credit Default Swaps that sounds like it might be Pulitzer material, I should shrug it off as a "cranked out yarn"?

southendguy's picture
southendguy - Mar 19, 2012

Mike Daisy IS a liar. Nothing in his original broadcast - by which I was also mesmerized - suggested in the least that he was presenting anything that was not factual. He did not tell us he was taking us to Never Never Land - he told us he was REPORTING on conditions.

Sure - TAL - goofed. Big time!

But in his "retraction" so-called, he continues to wrap himself in his delusional view of theater and reality. This guy is dangerous. I was fully alarmed at Apple etal. At conditions that no American worker would accept. These conditions violate all we hold dear in America by way of "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." In China's "1984" world - commerce is god. BTW - I do not buy the NYTimes correspondent's "contextualizing" China's values. That is a crock.

Keep this guy away from the airwaves, from TV, from Wikipedia.

No - I do not own any Apple products. This clarification of conditions in China does nothing either way for desiring them. Though I might feel a bit less oppressive-Western-consumer if I did.

TAL = lesson learned. Move on with dignity and resoluteness.

bobloza's picture
bobloza - Mar 18, 2012

It is easy to see why Ira Glass and Marketplace (and Ed Schultz, for that matter) fell for Mike Daisy's BS story.
There is an obvious anti-Apple perspective pervasive in the business media, and I am afraid also in liberal-minded media, as if they are the only evil-doers in this area. Even the NPR explanation, with Ira Glass and some New York Times reporter, does nothing to accuse ANY OTHER product manufacturer by name.

I am a Liberal, so this is not a right-wing attack, yet in this case the gullibility of "journalists" who want to tell the "truth" is blatant. Really, stop putting your guilt on Steve Jobs' dead shoulders. How about HP, Dell, Sony, etc? Name names. And do you think American workers (in a different way) are not also afraid to turn down overtime, or complain about non-ergonomic working conditions? Wake up to your own corporate bias, as if you don't work for one. If you want to attack Chinese factory conditions, include ALL American companies who do business there, not just Apple and Kathy Lee Gifford.

bgrice86's picture
bgrice86 - Mar 17, 2012

Like people's fear of vaccines and gluten one person can change peoples views to believe a lie that is damaging. Maybe, reporters should be more careful about publicizing narcissistic people who are in a theater production. This guy is an actor, and he needed his play to be entertaining so people would go. It is not his fault. A good story usually has fabrications.

JustBobF's picture
JustBobF - Mar 17, 2012

So Mike Daisey is a liar. That pretty much discredits. He should be fight for his job right now, I am afraid. This is as bad as plagiarism. Not only did he lie on This American Life; but, as your podcast showed through the clips of other news shows, he has lied repeatedly on news broadcasts. This is unforgivable.

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