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Can women actually balance work and home life?
Anne-Marie Slaughter, Professor of Politics and International Affairs at Princeton University, talks about her Atlantic article on whether or not women really can balance careers and home lives.
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Kai Ryssdal: A couple of years ago, Anne-Marie Slaughter was quite literally at the top of her profession. A professor of international relations at Princeton, she was on a two-year leave to work directly for Hillary Clinton at the State Department. Challenging, engaging and important work in her chosen field.
Until she decided it wasn't working for her anymore. That her family needed her more than her job did. That despite the line that women can have it all, they really can't. At least not the way things work now.
Anne-Marie Slaughter will be the first to say that according most definitions, she does have it all. But she writes in the latest edition of the Atlantic Magazine that more women ought to be able to as well. Anne Marie Slaughter, welcome to the program.
Anne-Marie Slaughter: Great to be here.
Ryssdal: You believe, and you say in this piece, that women can have it all -- but not the way the world works today, not the way society is structured. How do we get from here to where you want us to be, then?
Slaughter: Well, we start by having a really honest conversation about the barriers. And the reason I wrote the piece was that simply telling younger women: 'You can do it.' You know, if you want it badly enough, and if you marry the right person -- it's not enough. I don't think that's honest. A lot of women are out there blaming themselves when in fact, we can make a lot of changes. We can make it much easier for women, and again, men, to work outside the office as many sort of new innovative businesses are already doing. We can make it such that women and men can take time out in the sense of deferring promotions. And we can change the way we look at both men and women and say, 'Look, wanting to spend time with your kids does not make you any less a committed professional.'
Ryssdal: So you want it to be our choice, right? Whether it's a woman's choice or a man's choice? I mean, you can be a female heart surgeon, but it's tough to be a female heart surgeon and a full-time mom.
Slaughter: Absolutely. So I would say to young women: 'You want to be a heart surgeon -- just like I would say to a man -- then you really do need a mate who is going to be willing to be there for the kids more or less full-time. And frankly, you're going to have to recognize that there's going to be a lot of times when there's going to be a lot of tugging in terms of your heartstrings and your emotions, but that's the choice you've made.' But then I want to say to other women: 'Look, you can do it with kids if you have more flexibility.' I think we can make this kind of change, but we have to really be honest, first of all, and then committed.
Ryssdal: There's a current events part of this as well, as you try to generate this discussion to change what happens in the workplace in America and society. We're a country with 8.2 percent unemployment, we're down 8 million jobs from the beginning of the recession. What's the incentive to change the structure now when we're still trying to figure out how to get the employment going?
Slaughter: I'd say immediately, again, the demographic that I'm writing for, that's not the demographic that's unemployed, right? So the people I'm talking about have options, but they are not exercising those options in various ways because they feel deeply conflicted or they just can't make it work. They can't have young children and fully high-powered job, or teenagers and a fully high-powered job. And we've got to somehow put more play in those joints.
Ryssdal: Would you have given up your chance to run policy planning in the State Department for Hillary Clinton to have had a more active time with your children in their early teenage years?
Slaughter: No.
Ryssdal: A ha, a ha! Right, I mean...
Slaughter: And that's part of the message. I'm not saying, 'Look, you can't have these things.' I am saying the toll is high, and I expected that if I had the opportunity to stay, absolutely I'd stay. But when the time was up, I was very anxious to go home and very glad to be home. But no, I wouldn't give it up for those two years, but those two years are going to be all I could manage at this stage of my life and career.
Ryssdal: Anne-Marie Slaughter is a professor of politics and international affairs at Princeton by day. By night, and full-time, actually, she's a mom. She's got two boys. Anne-Marie, thanks a lot.
Slaughter: Thank you. It's a pleasure.
Ryssdal: The article she wrote, "Why Women Still Can't Have it All," is in the July/August issue of the Atlantic.
The article and commentary are sexist feminism. There is little to no consideration of the fact that father's often have the opposite problem. There is evidence that many mother's practise a form of "gatekeeping" parenthood where father's involvement and care of the children is accepted with criticism and instruction. I've seen many mother's complain that their children's father isn't "involved" in their kids lives as much as they would like but what they are really saying is that the father isn't accepting of the mother's instruction and wishes on the level and manner of the father's involvement. Until mother's yield on trying to have a leadership role in the home it will be hard for them to also wield power in the workplace.
This is a great post, I really am glad that I stumbled upon it! I am a stay at home mom and I’ve wrestled with the idea of going back to work, but I’d really hate to put my little one in daycare just so that I can make a little bit of money. Not only that, but it's true, trying to juggle a professional life and personal life with children is a difficult task. I’ve been talking about wanting to work from home for a very long time and finally my husband suggested that I start my own business. I was talking to a friend of mine about it and I told her that I had no clue where to even start. She does a lot of work editing and she actually suggested that I read a book called “The Barefoot Executive” by Carrie Wilkerson and that it would be a great book to give me a push in whichever direction I wanted to go. She gave me her website too barefootexecutivebook.com where I was able to order the book. It’s been great so far. I was wondering if anyone can refer any other books or articles on this topic as well?
Very few people can "have it all" male or female. "All" means different things to different people. How pompous and presumtuous to decree that "all" must include having children, any more than "all" must include having a horse, i-phone, monkey wrench, or a spruce tree in the back yard.
Ms. Slaughter's response to Kai's question about what could done to change that structure of the work place disappointed me. I'm a member of the demographic she speaking to but with 8.2% unemployment who really cares if she or I can have it all? The whole question sounds like elitist whining and foot stomping. Most full-time employed Americans, male or female, can't have it all and do not aspire to it. The newly divorced, mother of two, public school teacher isn't worried about having it all; she is concerned about whether or not she'll get a pink slip in July and have a position to return to in the fall. My father was very successful in his career, working 7 days a week from dawn 'til dusk but he, my other and my siblings were robbed of family life. So much for having it all. Instead of wringing our hands over whether or not women can have it all, perhaps Ms. Slaughter might direct her discussion toward how we might guide begin implementing public policy that truly supports families and children such as those of social democracies such as Denmark, France and Germany. I don't have children but I'd gladly pay more in taxes if we'd actually put the common good ahead of the dissatisfied few's unfulfilled dreams of a high-powered career. Boo-hoo!
