U.S. President Barack Obama (R) applauds Secretary of Education Arne Duncan (L) during a ceremony honoring National Teacher of the Year award winner Sean McComb and individual state winners at the White House May 1, 2014 in Washington, DC. McComb teaches at Patapsco High School & Center for the Arts in Baltimore County Public Schools.
U.S. President Barack Obama (R) applauds Secretary of Education Arne Duncan (L) during a ceremony honoring National Teacher of the Year award winner Sean McComb and individual state winners at the White House May 1, 2014 in Washington, DC. McComb teaches at Patapsco High School & Center for the Arts in Baltimore County Public Schools. - 

In an interview with Marketplace's Kai Ryssdal, Secretary of Education Arne Duncan said new rules targeting vocational college programs that leave students with too much debt and too few job prospects were designed with "outcomes, not inputs" in mind.

"The worst-case scenario is when you go to college, accumulate debt, and then don't graduate," Duncan said. 

When asked if he thought everyone should go to college, Duncan said he believed everyone needed additional education beyond high school: "If young people drop out of high school today, they are basically condemned to poverty and social failure. There are no good jobs out there... the economy has changed." 

Duncan said the so-called "gainful employment rules" target middling-to-failing vocational education programsmost of which are offered by for-profit universities and community collegesin order to provide meaningful post-secondary education across economic classes. 

The final draft of the rules released on Thursday relaxed some earlier provisions, drawing criticism from some education groups and for-profit education providers, who say their programs may be the only option for thousands of low-income students. Duncan said no programs will be shut down without "time to improve."

"We invest $22 billion each year in these programs,"  Duncan said referring to the federal financial aid that pays tuition for most students in for-profit programs. "We want to see strong programs grow, and expand and serve more students. And we want to see programs that aren't doing a good job either improve or cease to exist... Shutting them down is not our goal, but we will have that ability. It's when training is leading to jobs that don't exist, or where debt is unmanageable... that's what we're pushing back against."

The debt-load requirements in the new rules target only vocational training programs and schools. Duncan says the Obama administration has expanded investment in Pell Grants, pushed for broader state-led initiatives and encouraged universities themselves to fight higher tuition overall.  He - along with his boss - has also discussed a "more transparent" rating system, which, as one education official told the New York Times, should be a straightforward process, "like rating a blender." 

"I don't know whether that's the right analogy or not, but let me say this: We as taxpayers... we invest $150 billion in grants and loans each year to make grants and loans accessible. That's the right thing to do, if we are focused on outcomes.

You can listen to the interview on this evening's Marketplace, or on the audio player at the top of the page.

Follow Kai Ryssdal at @kairyssdal