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The (interim) Joint Chiefs of Staff?
Aug 4, 2023
Episode 980

The (interim) Joint Chiefs of Staff?

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First the U.S. Marines and now the Army. For the first time in American history, two members of the Joint Chiefs of Staff lack the blessing of the Senate, as Sen. Tommy Tuberville, an Alabama Republican, holds up hundreds of military promotions to protest the Pentagon’s new abortion policy. We’ll explain the implications of having interims filling these top military posts. And good news for the lungs of the planet: Deforestation is on a downward trend in the Amazon rainforest. Plus, we’ll play a game of Half Full / Half Empty with predictions about the “vibecession.”

Here’s everything we talked about:

We are taking our usual summer hiatus next week, but while we are on break we’d love to hear from you! We want to know your answer to the Make Me Smart question. Leave us a voicemail at 508-U-B-SMART or email us at makemesmart@marketplace.org.

Make Me Smart August 4, 2023 Transcript

Note: Marketplace podcasts are meant to be heard, with emphasis, tone and audio elements a transcript can’t capture. Transcripts are generated using a combination of automated software and human transcribers, and may contain errors. Please check the corresponding audio before quoting it.

Kai Ryssdal 

Hi everybody, I’m Kai Ryssdal. Welcome back to Make Me Smart, where we make today make sense. It is Friday, Friday, Friday, Friday, Friday, the fourth day of August.

Kimberly Adams 

It is indeed and I am Kimberly Adams. Thank you for joining us everyone for economics on tap our weekly happy hour. The YouTube live stream is up and running. We’ve got news again and drinks. Yeah, we’re gonna we’re gonna do all the things. Go ahead, it’s your turn.

Kai Ryssdal 

Well, I couldn’t, I know it’s my turn, but I was taking a sip of my beer. That’s why we have videos so you can see.

Kimberly Adams 

Well, I couldn’t because you know, scrambling at the last minute. Now I can see you

Kai Ryssdal

Okay, that’s true. That’s true. We’ll do we’ll do drinks. We’ll do the news. We’ll do all that stuff. So yours sounds fancy. I don’t have your picture up on my iPad here for some reason. What are you drinking?

Kimberly Adams 

That’s okay. Oh gosh what is it called? I think it’s called a dragon something. Gosh, you guys we put it in the newsletter helped me out here. It’s been so long since I put it in, it’s called a dragon warmer, and it’s a fruit cocktail. And it’s supposed to be made warm. And I did make it warm, but it’s also summer and so I’m, I’ve got it in a shaker with ice that like instantly melted. But it’s got apple juice, dark rum, the apple juice I like boiled cinnamon sticks and lemon slices in it. And then it’s got like a lemon as a garnish but it didn’t stay on the glass nicely. So it’s sitting in the bottom of the glass. But it’s basically rum and apple juice.

Kai Ryssdal 

That’s not terrible, that sounds quite tasty with with cinnamon and a little lemon.

Kimberly Adams 

It’s like a winter drink in the summer.

Kai Ryssdal 

There you go, there you go.I almost went with a bourbon and ginger this afternoon. But I just didn’t feel like dealing with it. Which I know is ridiculous. Because it’s like a two-part drink and you have like 77 parts every time so whatever.

Kimberly Adams 

No no, it’s fine. Do Do what makes you happy. For what it’s worth Kai, you can’t see but Jasper is staring directly at you.

Kai Ryssdal 

Well, good. Let’s hope he recognizes my voice by now. I mean, you know, well I guess he can’t hear me.

Kimberly Adams 

Well he can’t hear you he’s…

Kai Ryssdal

I know, I know.

Kimberly Adams

He’s deaf and I’m on headphones, but also like I think he’s, he definitely shows up whatever he can stare at your face. So I think you’ve got a fan.

Kai Ryssdal 

Well let’s hope so. So I was gonna do bourbon and ginger. I didn’t. I went to the back of the fridge and pulled out a beer that the kids got me for Father’s Day. They got me a case of beer mix and match IPAs, so I’m having a double Dale’s Double IPA, imperial IPA from Oskar Blues brewery in originally Longmont, Colorado. Now it’s spread to a bunch of places. It’s pretty good. It’s pretty good. It’s a little tangy is the word I would use. Tangy would say Tangy.

Kimberly Adams 

Well, let’s have a look in the YouTube chat.

Kai Ryssdal 

Let’s do that. Let’s do that. So

Kimberly Adams 

Terry’s got a classic gin and tonic. You know how I feel about gin. John Voss has a Diet Coke and Veean was asking what kind of cinnamon did I use? It was a cinnamon stick that I boiled it with and I don’t remember because I think the cinnamon stick is probably like five years old and I do not remember from whence it came.

Kai Ryssdal 

So in other news, there are different kinds of cinnamon.

Kimberly Adams 

Oh yeah, there’s lots of different I mean kind of like where what country it comes from. I think they’re actually different species of the cinnamon tree if I’m not mistaken, but I’ve never gotten that fancy into it so I can’t even get into this.

Kai Ryssdal

You are such a noob.

Kimberly Adams

You have expertise in other things. I have expertise in cocktails.

Kai Ryssdal 

In other areas. Wait, wait Diana White, Diana White, where are you? Sitting outside, she writes, drinking whiskey and watching the Blue Angels buzz over that’s pretty nice. Where are you? Where are the Blues today? It’s just the middle of their season. They’re doing like a summer season, right? This is warm ups. So they’re probably like out in El Centro, or maybe in Pensacola, right. Where are we? August? Yeah, they haven’t even started yet. I will keep my eye on the, on the feed here to see where the Blue Angels are. Anyway

Kimberly Adams 

And I see, oh somebody’s got a Brooklyn Brewery Pulp Art Hazy IPA that Steve from New Jersey is drinking. It’s an IPA. So I thought you might like that.

Kai Ryssdal 

Yeah. Diana White is on Mercer Island in Washington. I guess the Blues are up there training. I don’t know. Is there an air show? Diana, you tell me. This is a whole lot of interaction with the chat. So those of you who are listening to this later, I’m really sorry.

Kimberly Adams 

Yeah you know, maybe they’ll cut it out and post.

Kai Ryssdal 

That’s right, ehh why would they do that? Alright, let’s see. Let’s do some news. You get to go first.

Kimberly Adams 

Yes, well, just a follow up on the story that we’ve been talking about about Senator Tuberville holding up all of these confirm- Senate confirmations for

Kai Ryssdal 

Oh my god, we have the same link and I didn’t even notice. Sorry, sorry. Sorry. Sorry.

Kimberly Adams 

Well, and I’m gonna defer to you as a veteran. Why don’t you go You go ahead?

Kai Ryssdal 

It’s just deeply, deeply, deeply, deeply, deeply irritating. So my cue here was a tweet from Oren Lieberman, who’s the Pentagon correspondent for CNN.

Kimberly Adams

Oh that’s so funny, I didn’t know that.

Kai Ryssdal

Yeah and he posted a picture which hangs on the, he posted a picture that hangs in the E ring of the Pentagon, the outermost ring, where all the fancy offices are, because they’re the ones that have nice views outside, of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. And so you’ve got the chairman and the vice chairman up on top, and then the six branch chiefs on the bottom, and two of them are blank, right coming out of the Marine Corps is blank. And the chief of staff of the Army retired today. So that’s blank, the CNO, the Chief of Naval Operations retires in two weeks, that’ll be three. And Senator Tuberville, for reasons that escaped me, actually they don’t I mean, I understand why he’s doing it. I disagree with why he’s doing it. I know, I disagree with why he’s doing it, but refuses to let any Pentagon promotions or confirmations go through. Obviously, officers in the United States military have to be approved by the Senate, usually it’s a formality except for the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, which gets a roll call vote. But all the rest of them usually get, you know, unanimous consent. And approval is holding that up. And I just I know I’ve said this before, but it’s it’s I’m bewildered by the way the Congress in the United States specifically the Senate is behaving on this. Truly.

Kimberly Adams 

So the Politico article that I have has just a couple of really interesting points. So as of Friday, there were 301 senior military officers caught up in Tuberville’s hold, ranging from the nominees to lead the army Marines Navy to the next Chair of the Joint Chiefs. The blockade is also holding up command changes for the fifth and seventh fleets, which run naval operations in the Middle East in the Pacific, the next leaders of the Defense Intelligence Agency, and the Air Forces Combat Command, in the 120 years since the Army Chief of Staff position was created, there’s only been one time, a three month period in 1972, when a general performed the role without Senate confirmation. And let’s remember that the whole reason for Senate confirmation of these military posts is to maintain the balance of power, you know, the checks and balances and make sure that the Congress has a say in what the military does, since the President is Commander in Chief. And this doesn’t bode well for that. But, you know, the other thing I noticed in this piece is that, you know, there are all these people who want to retire and feel like they can’t and then they are anyway now, but also, the people who are forced to step in when folks retire are essentially doing these jobs without the pay bump. And so that’s not fair either.

Kai Ryssdal 

Yeah, let me let me try to explain this sort of in layman’s terms. And so we’ve got, as Kimberly said, 300ish or so really senior military officers, whose confirmations that is to say the appropriate blessing by the government, the United States, for them to have this job and to know that they have the full faith and authority of the American government behind them when they go into negotiations with foreign counterparts. When they make strategic decisions when they make in the case of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, former military recommendations to the President. Imagine if big companies in this economy P&G and and Mondelez and and banks and JP Morgan and take your pick, didn’t have anybody actually who was blessed by the board of directors to be in charge. What do you suppose would happen to the strategic direction of that company, to the willingness of those under that person to follow the directions and orders and guidance and strategy because you know, who knows how long they’re gonna be there? This is a real strategic faux pas I think by Senator Tuberville and it and it has lasting implications and that to answer your question, in the chat, is why it matters. You can’t do the job in these jobs, right? If so, look, if you’re an 05 Navy officer that is to say, a commander in the United States Navy, and you are filling in as a Squadron Commander, because the boss is out of town or has retired and nobody’s gotten around to naming a replacement, which doesn’t really happen, but just bear with me. That’s fine. Right? The planes are gonna fly. And the junior officers are gonna say “Yes Skipper, I’m gonna go fly.” And the maintenance guys are going to do what they have to do. But when you have people at this level, who are responsible for multibillion dollar budgets, and hundreds of 1000s of people weighing it just doesn’t do it. Yeah, anyway.

Kimberly Adams 

Anyway, all right. So I knew that was going to be kind of grim. So I wanted to pick something that was less so and it’s moderately less grim. So yay, for Friday be a little less terrified of our future story. A story on CNN and a bunch of other places that Amazon deforestation, you know, like the clear cutting of the lungs of the planet is at a six year low. And it went down 66% In July, and it had a major drop last year and it’s continuing to drop. And the Brazilian government, under da Silva, Lula da Silva says that they’re going to get rid of deforestation in the rain in the Amazon rainforest altogether. And they are doing all sorts of things to try to make that happen. I’m reading here from CNN, “Brazil’s environment, minister, Marina Silva, said government policies, including increased surveillance and fining perpetrators has played a big role in bringing rates of deforestation down,” it is the end of the expectation of impunity. Silva told the news conference, “when you see the increase in operations…this creates a virtuous virtuous circle of no longer expecting impunity.” And I think a lot of the language around, you know, trying to limit global warming and do things to combat climate change, often present that the developing world is, not developing world, the global south is sort of waiting on the west and the global north to do things. But many, many places are acting on their own, despite the lack of action by the global north and the west. And I thought this was encouraging.

Kai Ryssdal 

Yeah, no, look, I think you take your wins, where you can get them and as we worry more, I hope we worry more after this summer about global warming and the planet changing. Stuff like this is gonna matter. You know, I that’s cool. That’s great news. I’ll take it.

Kimberly Adams 

Everything matters at this point. Yeah. All right. That is it for the news. Yes. That is it for the news. We’re going to take a break and then we’re going to come back with Drew Jostad, who’s going to lead us in a round of half full half empty and we will be right back.

Kimberly Adams 

I should say for a while I had your face covered on the screen and that’s when Jasper went to lie down. But now he’s watching again, you can see.

Kai Ryssdal 

Jaspers, my buddy. Look, I will take fans where I can get them. I have a certain vanity and I’m not below sneaking and appealing to a cat. That’s all I’m saying. Let’s move on,

Kimberly Adams 

There’s some, I’m trying to, no I have I have a point on this, little dog on social media and I think it may be like a French Bulldog or something. And apparently this dog has like a crush on the guy who played Superman but who’s also in The Witcher. And there were all these like videos of this dog like running whenever he would come on camera and like staring at a little shrine to him and who knows maybe the owner trained it but it was like a very cute thing and then I guess on some red carpet for the latest season of The Witcher the dog got to meet this actor. And it was all a thing and it was adorable. And so that’s what this that’s cool. It was the thing. I’m sure so many in the chat or in Discord knows what I’m talking about, but will give me names of things that I forget. Of course anyway. Let’s go. Alright, so now we’re gonna play half full half empty, Drew Jostad here and he’s going to give us topics, and we’re gonna let you know where we stand and yeah, Drew, let’s go.

Drew Jostad 

All right first topic are you half full or half empty on parental leave for grandparents?

Kai Ryssdal 

Oh, so this is an interview I did with a reporter from the Wall Street Journal who wrote a couple of weeks ago, and we were not prompt on picking this up, about some companies, a very few companies here in the United States, but a lot of international companies offering grandparental leave, if you will, for grandparents for you know, a week, 10 days to bond with their grandchildren. Blah, blah, blah. It’s, sorry, that was dismissive. And as a guy who will be a grandparent sooner than probably anybody listening to this podcast or on this podcast or on the staff of this podcast? Sorry, sorry, sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry.

Kimberly Adams 

I mean, you never know man, things happen.

Kai Ryssdal 

Well you, you never know, you never know. Anyway. So it’s companies recognizing the value of older workers, right? It’s a demographics in the labor force story. It’s wanting to keep those older workers who have a work ethic, who have institutional knowledge, and who have some wisdom to give to younger workers in this economy, and companies are adopting it. And look, even though I’m chronologically closer than many, I’m hopeful, I think it’s great.

Kimberly Adams 

I’m hopeful as well, because I think that we need to be better about building a sense of community and support for families. Because if we learned anything in the worst of the pandemic, it’s that a lot of times parents are really left on their own. And if you’ve got grandparents who are willing to step up and help, I think our society should, should support them. So yeah, half full.

Kai Ryssdal

Yeah, totally, absolutely.

Drew Jostad 

Half full or half empty on FedNow, instant payments?

Kimberly Adams 

Oh this was a fun story. Well, I mean, it’s super wonky, but it was a good, well-done story by our colleagues. So this just means money, ideally, should move faster through the economy. And I’m half full, I mean, the rest of the world has been, I mean, the rest of the, you know, global, north, the Western world, we gotta, I gotta figure out what the actual appropriate terms are these days. Because, you know, there are certain things we know, it’s the wrong way to delineate it, I guess OECD countries sure, whatever, have been doing this for a while, the European Union has been doing it for a while. But yeah, I think it’s the federal government catching up with, I guess, Venmo. So sure.

Kai Ryssdal 

Yeah, totally. So look, I don’t think you’re, so two things. I don’t think global north is the wrong nomenclature, because that kind of works. But also, we should recognize that a lot of financial innovation has come from developing countries rather, excuse me. I’m thinking specifically of of God, was it Nigeria?

Kimberly Adams 

I think it was Kenya, Kenya maybe. But yeah, Africa in general, they did a lot of text based and cell phone based instant payments and bankless payments instead.

Kai Ryssdal 

Like 10 years ago, a long time ago. Yes, yes, for sure. Right. So we I mean, you know, honestly, the central bank and the biggest economy in the world is is way behind the power curve. So anyway, yeah.

Kimberly Adams 

So somebody in the chat asked, does this apply to all of us or just for federal payments? Banks have the option of whether or not they want to sign on to this service. And so a bunch of banks have, many banks have not, there’s, as was reported in the story, there’s some startup costs, you know, you have to train your staff to know how to deal with it. And there’s a bunch of technical stuff on the back end. So no, it’s not everyone. And but I think eventually there’s going to be some version of this forever. Yeah, there’s a bunch of people in the chat saying yes, it was Kenya that was doing it. For quite some time in New Zealand. For years, it’s been an instant payment. Let’s see ExpatMike says I send money from Japan to USA and it’s in my bank account within 24 hours. You know, so yeah. I’m glad that people enjoyed my pour.

Kai Ryssdal 

I’m actually pulling up the full screen. I’m pulling up the full screen on the Zoom and and so it’s you and me on video and everybody else who’s producing or, you know, actually making this podcast happen has their cameras off, but it’s you and me. And once again and I know I said this before we turn the microphones on, you look fabulous. I look like crap. Anyway.

Kimbelry Adams

You don’t look like crap, don’t worry.

Kai Ryssdal

Shall we move on? No I do, I legit look like crap. I mean, you can see the sweat on my brow and whatever. Anyway, let’s go, shall we Drew, please.

Drew Jostad 

The Biden administration is working on a cybersecurity certification program for smart home products that would tell you how vulnerable or secure they are for hacking, to hacking. Are you half full or half empty?

Kimberly Adams 

This was a really interesting interview on the Tech show, basically creating a nutrition label type situation for in tech devices. Basically looking at how recently it’s been updated, and almost having an expiry date on its safety. And I thought that was really cool. Like there might end up being like a QR code on devices that you could check to see like, when was, when does it next need to be updated? Or when was it last tested to see if it actually aligned with the latest standards. And I think that’s a great idea. Because I like, I went on Amazon, like two years ago, and I got I bought this motorization system for the curtains that are in my bedroom, because I you know, I want to be fancy and I installed it. And I got up there on the ladder and I put it up, you know, whatever. But I bought the cheapest one I could. And I’ve always wondered like is how safe is it for you know, can somebody hack into my curtains and open them, like not that anybody would care that much. But I would have loved to know. And so I think that I that that would be great to have. The person who was interviewed on tech did point out though, that this is about security settings and not privacy settings, which is a nuance I hadn’t thought about in that context yet. And yeah, that that matters, too. Because it’s one thing if you’re secure from hackers, it’s another thing, how secure that device is from the owners and the company that makes it right.

Kai Ryssdal 

Right, right. I mean, look, there are vulnerabilities all over the damn place, right all over the place.

Kimberly Adams

Alright what’s next?

Drew Jostad 

Half full or half empty on the room temperature superconductor?

Kai Ryssdal 

Oh, so Sabri did a story on this for us the other day. There are some controversies, it is not universally accepted that this actually happened. But if if we can get room temperature superconducting, which is like maglev trains, going 80 miles an hour and all kinds of different things, that would be amazing. I’m half full on the prospect. I’m not actually anywhere close to full on on the actual reality of it. Now, science will develop but not right now. That’s my thought.

Kimberly Adams 

So, a couple of days after Sabri did that story, I saw another story where Chinese researchers claimed to have duplicated the experiment I believe it was that it was South Korean researchers who did the first round and so supposedly some Chinese researchers say that they’ve duplicated the experiment. I’m simply on the base basis of the fact that I want to live my optimistic Pollyanna world, half full. I know a lot of you’re experiencing a delay in the chat and I’m really sorry about the video and audio delay but can’t do anything about it.

Kai Ryssdal 

Didn’t know anything about that. That’s that’s not good.

Kimbelry Adams

Go for it.

Kai Ryssdal

Oh, no, go ahead. We’re all good.

Drew Jostad 

I got the last topic here.

Kai Ryssdal 

Oh so last topic, we’re gonna do a poll.

Kimberly Adams

We’re gonna do this slowly.

Kai Ryssdal

Let me just say that atearofhope writes in the comments, “Just looked up what Drew looks like.” Sorry, Drew if that freaks you out, man. It’s gonna happen. It’s gonna happen.

Kimberly Adams 

Wow, that was a sigh. That was a sigh. Megan O’Hare says that the live stream has a very dubbed anime feel. And I know exactly what you mean. And I’m sorry that you’re experiencing that which is exactly the reason why I prefer subbed anime. But anyway.

Kai Ryssdal 

I was just going to say, that really resonates with you, right? The anime.

Kimberly Adams 

It really did. Yeah, totally. Yes, it did. Alright, so we are going to move on to this last topic. We’ll give it some time since we know that there’s a bit of a delay, Drew hit us with the last topic and we will pause in our weighing.

Drew Jostad 

All right, for this one half full will mean that you think the vibecession is over half empty if you think that it persists.

Kai Ryssdal 

Okay. Oh is there not an actual thing, we’re just gonna react to that?

Drew Jostad 

Well, the half empty is the is the vibecession over? Half full or half empty?

Kai Ryssdal 

Okay, so let me set it up. So we’ve talked a number of times over the past 18 months, two years, with a woman named Kyla Scanlon, who is as she builds herself, a content creator and economics educator, and now an author. She’s got a book coming out, it’s called “In this Economy?”. And you should buy it when it comes out. But so Kyla is oh my goodness, she’s an omnivore on all things economic and finance. She is an educator. As I said, she is on Tik Tok, and oh my goodness, Twitter and Insta and all the socials at KylaScan, K-Y-L-A-S-C-A-N. And you should follow her. Because she explains stuff in a really Marketplace way and as I think, I don’t know if Francesca is listening to this. And you’ll figure out who Francesca is when we get to the credits, for those of you who are new to this podcast. She explains things in a very Marketplace the way and if we could hire her to do our social and our TikToks, we would, but we can’t. So let me just recap.

Kimberly Adams 

Oh you love our social media and tech people now.

Kai Ryssdal 

We do, we absolutely do. But about six, eight months ago, she came up with this phrase called the vibecsession, which is to say the general trend of the economy even back six months ago, was toward the positive, inflation was coming down, job market was solid, wage gains were good, but not good enough to make the Fed worry. Excuse me, beer burp, excuse me another one. Look, hey, look you want unfiltered Kai Ryssdal you get it on this podcast. Anyway. So basically this thing with the vibecession, which is to say the vibes in this economy do not match the data, the data was that it was good and trending toward better. And yet people were upset. They were not feeling great. They were marginally pissed off, and they didn’t get any of the benefit. And now conceivably, and we had Kyla on this week, the vibecession is over, which is to say people are now starting to understand that to quote Jeanna Smialek on Marketplace’s afternoon, “good news can actually be good news,” we can take full faith and credit, if you will, in the fact that unemployment is really low, and wages are still solid, and inflation is coming down. And so that’s the jam on the vibecession, the vibecession is over. And we’re gonna have a soft landing just to punctuate that. Alright, so that’s where I am. What else do we have?

Kimberly Adams 

So one more time Drew. The half full is that we think it’s over and the half empty as we think it’s not?

Drew Jostad

Yeah.

Kimberly Adams

Okay, we need more y’all to vote. There’s only 96.

Kai Ryssdal

96? What are you people even doing? Yeah. Sorry. I love our listeners, but

Kimberly Adams

They had too much to drink.

Kai Ryssdal 

Maybe they had some beer burps, I don’t know.

Kimberly Adams 

Or maybe they’re protesting against the delay?

Kai Ryssdal 

Yeah, maybe I’m sorry about that. Yes, we’re gonna wait. So wait. So so there’s a couple in here. Sorry to interrupt. There are a couple of people in here, who say it was confusing. So here’s the deal. Drew, say it again.

Drew Jostad 

Half full, the vibecession is over.

Kai Ryssdal 

Which is to say sorry, hang on, which is to say sorry, the economy is good, and things are gonna get better. And we’re not going to have a recession. Drew continue.

Drew Jostad 

Half empty. We’re still in the vibe session. Meaning like, we still feel bad, even though things are good.

Kimberly Adams 

Yeah. Okay. The data is good. Okay. So this really gets at I think, the whole reason that Marketplace exists, which is that big macro-economic data does not make sense to most people. And when you hear the headlines on a lot of traditional business and economic news outlets, that is these headlines that are designed for investors, and designed for market watchers to make to help them make more money, on stocks and whatever else you want to spend money on. That’s not the same kind of information you need to often go about your day-to-day life. And I think that that’s that’s literally why we exist because we’re having a totally different conversation on Marketplace than we’re having than they’re having on CNBC on Bloomberg and The Wall Street Journal. at all, but most people when they hear those headlines, which are all high energy and frantic, and you got to do this now and buy sell this, that and the other, it creates a sense of anxiety, right? And so if that anxiety is there, and then you have reasonably scary inflation layered on top of it, like, of course, people are gonna freak out. Even if, you know, other data underlying it might be good. So I am going to say, oh, yeah, “okay, but my neighbor lost her job equals recession. I lost my job equals depression is real,” in spite of macro-economic data. Yes, absolutely. And at this point, everybody knows, or has personally experienced real pain from inflation. So even if the data trend and you’re even if you’ve gotten a raise, it hasn’t kept up with inflation. So even if you’re doing okay, and you’re surviving, you may feel like you’re not doing as well as you were. And also, you know, the world burning around you, people are going to feel nervous, and I and so that is why I’m gonna vote half empty. I don’t think the vibecession is over. I think the vibecession might be over for economists who, as you said today, in the weekly wrap, you know, people did not want to just believe that the economic data was good, even when the economic data was good. And everybody’s predicting recession is coming. Recession is coming, regardless, but I still think it’s going to be a struggle for non-economic people. And myself included, to separate what we’re seeing people go through from the macro-economic trends. That was a rant.

Kai Ryssdal 

Fair enough. But no, no, it wasn’t a rant. It was actually it was exceptional. It was a great summation of what it is that we try to do on this program. I need somebody in the Marketplace Slack to hit me with the results of this poll, because otherwise so let’s close it and Kimberly and I’ll do a little song and dance.

Kimbelry Adams

Well you don’t ever dance.

Kai Ryssdal

I know I don’t. You know why? Because I’m a terrible dancer. At the aforementioned I believe on this podcast. Bacchanalia at my at my college roommates 60th birthday party in northern Michigan two weeks ago or whatever the hell it was a long time ago. There was some dancing, and it was terrible. Let me just say it was terrible. Terrible.

Kimberly Adams 

I think that dancing by default if you’re joyful while doing it is not terrible. Anyway, thoughts into the vibecession. Okay, all right. Go ahead. God, that’s a whole other thing. Half full 65% half empty, 34% 166 votes. Thank you all for showing up. I know it’s a little bit confusing. So we are grateful that you tried.

Kai Ryssdal  

We try. Alright, we’re done, Drew hit that sting. Charlton, whoever is in charge of this bleeping podcast help us out.

Kimberly Adams 

All right, that is it for us today and a quick programming note. We are going to start with our usual summer break next week. But Kai and a few other Marketplace voices are going to be back in your feeds the week after while I am still on vacation. And yeah, hope you all enjoy.

Kai Ryssdal 

Yeah, so we will be off next week. I think we’re gonna slide something to the feed on Tuesdays. Otherwise, Monday through Friday we will be dark. While we’re on break, help us out with you. Looking for your answers to the Make Me Smart question: what is something you thought you knew but later found out you were wrong about?  Record a, you know the producers want a one minute answer, I’m gonna say a 40 second answer because I get to decide because I’m sitting in front of the microphone anyway. 40 seconds, send it our way. What is something you thought you knew but later, you’re wrong about? And right now Bridget, Marissa, and Courtney are like what are you doing? Leave us a voicemail 508-U-B-SMART and we will get you on the pot.

Kimberly Adams 

And also don’t forget to send us your songs about the economy.

Kai Ryssdal 

Oh, yeah. Yeah. And we should do that actually when you get back. I will, I will tell you what my song is.

Kimberly Adams 

Okay, Make Me Smart is produced by Courtney Burgsieker. Today’s episode was engineered by Charlton Thorp. Our intern is Niloufar Shahbandi. Drew Jostad wrote the theme music and hosted our game half full half empty.

Kai Ryssdal 

The team behind half full half empty is Emily Macune and Antoinette Brock. Marissa Cabrera is our senior producer questioning her life choices right now. Bridge Bodnar is the director of podcasts also same thing, thinking what is she doing here? Francesca Levy is the executive director of Digital and on demand in Marketplace. Central. I don’t know.

Kimberly Adams 

We did it. That was a chunky pod.

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The team

Marissa Cabrera Senior Producer