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No-frills colleges don't have big costs

College money

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Kai Ryssdal: Secretary of Education Arne Duncan is out and about today. He's off on a listening tour to see what parents, teachers and students have to say about No Child Left Behind. President Obama has said he wants to make some changes to the Bush-era education law.

Students who are about to leave high school behind still have some work to do before they can head off to college in the fall. Such as, figuring out how to pay for it. Policy-makers in Pennsylvania are looking for a new way to lower the cost of higher education. Joel Rose reports from Philadelphia.


JOEL ROSE: I'm standing on the campus of the University of Pennsylvania, where a construction crew builds what will eventually be a $14 million fitness center and weight room. These are exactly the kind of perks that prospective students have to come to expect, even as tuition bills keep getting bigger.

JOE Torsella: Somewhere in this educational landscape, there should be a no-frills model.

Joe Torsella is chairman of the Pennsylvania State Board of Education. He says the board is worried that college is becoming too expensive for too many families. So earlier this year, the board recommended that Pennsylvania consider creating a different kind of school, one where you can get a decent education without the fancy dorm rooms, food courts, and athletic facilities.

Torsella: There ought to be this option. And we oughta in the spirit of experimentation see if there is a market for it.

The no-frills model is already popular in Europe, where it's common for students to live with their parents during college. And there are signs it could work here, too. Richard Vedder directs the Center for College Affordability and Productivity in Washington. Vedder says enrollment is up at community colleges, and at for-profit colleges like the University of Phoenix.

RICHARD Vedder: They are pretty much no-frill universities. They are in office buildings near the freeway with good parking. And these schools are growing very rapidly. So that suggests that perhaps the Pennsylvania experiment might work.

Some traditional four-year colleges are already experimenting with a low-cost approach. The sticker price at Southern New Hampshire University is $35,000 a year. But commuter students in a new pilot program pay less than a third of that. University president Paul LeBlanc says they're getting the same education without the comforts of campus life.

PAUL LeBlanc: So for them, the ability to take all their classes in the morning, to work, to live at home was the most important. They wanted the academic experience. What they were less interested in were fitness centers and food courts.

LeBlanc says those extras drive up the cost of college for everyone. It might seem crazy for prospective students to put so much emphasis on things that don't improve the actual education they're getting. But some economists say it's perfectly rational.

CHARLES Hatcher: This is all essentially about investing in a good reputation.

Economist and consultant Charles Hatcher says students are trying to send a signal to prospective employers that they are the best of the best.

Hatcher: Students have to do it by going to a reputable school. And schools have to signal to prospective students that they're that sort of university. And climbing walls or fancy dorm rooms might actually be ways to do that.

When it comes to college, Hatcher says there will always be some consumers who equate price with quality. But Joe Torsella at the Pennsylvania State Board of Education thinks the downturn is starting to chip away at that perception.

Torsella: There are college students who don't want those amenities. We heard from them. And it certainly seems like there are enough to support one institution that goes in that direction.

Torsella doesn't expect Pennsylvania to break ground on a new university anytime soon. But he does hope that an existing school finds a way to offer four-year degrees, without the bells and whistles.

In Philadelphia, I'm Joel Rose for Marketplace.

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Ray Van De Walker's picture
Ray Van De Walker - May 6, 2009

My son attends mostly by the web (in Coastline Community College District, California). Now, -there's- value. No buildings. No parking lots. No commute vehicle, expense or time. The servers can fit in containers on a back lot somewhere. And it works, with results equal or -better- than attended college. He's working hard. He takes finals at a big office building; That's the only time he has to go anywhere.

B Desai's picture
B Desai - May 6, 2009

As a MBA student at Oakland University in Rochester, Michigan with full time work, I didn't have time to use Gym or any other goodies offered by Oakland University except library. I complained to School of Business, that their value proposition model defies what they teach in MBA program (always deliver higher value to customer). I guess other students also complained about extra fees. Finally OU officials realized, and got rid of extra fees in 2006 and charge only per credit hour. In capitalism, one should pay for only thing that is going to be used.

I don’t think for profit universities offers value to students. Their bottom line is to make money for their owners rather than providing value to their consumers (students).

Albert Russo's picture
Albert Russo - May 6, 2009

The California State University system has nearly half a million students and tuition is about $3200 a year. There's a bargin. CSU Long Beach is currently constructing a Fitness Center paid for by students who approved the measure. These "frills" are important for quality of life issues, IMHO.
The "for profit" schools you mentioned like U of Phoenix are extremely expensive and low quality. They are popular because of convience and lower standards than traditional universities.
I am currently a professor at California State University, Long Beach and have taught at a "for profit" institution.

Lawrence Durham's picture
Lawrence Durham - May 5, 2009

Our national obsession with one's getting "a college education" has created a caste society that transcends cultural and socio-economic bounds. Though an individual's worth as a human being should not determined by academic credentials, our society now tends to do just that. Maybe we're waking up.

Scott McDonald's picture
Scott McDonald - May 5, 2009

The best college level education experience I've encountered is watching DVD's from The Learning Company. These lectures are much more engaging and informative than the ones I attended at the Universtiy of Virginia and at small fraction of the cost. The reason is simple. The Teaching Company makes sure to use exceptionally gifted orators who excel at explaining complex material and engaging their audience. So if you want to set up a cost effective no-frills University, offer DVD recordings of the best lecturere in the country, add mentors and testors as appropriate, and use the enormous savings to allow students meaningful internships and relevant job training. And in order to prove DVD students are learning as much as traditional students, require standardized exit testing and the completion of one or more graduate admissions exams. As to branding, why not pay top high school students to attend. Give validictorians a free ride plus $10,000 per year in escrow. Many smart, ambitious students will compete to attend given that deal. And once that happens, the brand will establish itself.

zino m's picture
zino m - May 5, 2009

You need to look at Mass School of Law.
It is a law school. The building are utilized 100%. They do this by having longer school days 3 times a week for each year student.

No wonder the tution fees are approx 15000 a year. Your taught by real proffessors not teacher aides for all your classes.

I looked at other law schools in the area. Every one had a sticker price of 40000 or higher.

We have the local Mass state legislator
Stephen Badour who is a graduate of this school

Leanne Deaton's picture
Leanne Deaton - May 5, 2009

Interesting story but I think you may have overlooked the fact that the University of Pennsylvania is a private, Ivy League institution and, as such, is probably not a good example of the types of campuses referred to by the Pennsylvania State Board of Education in this story.

michael pettengill's picture
michael pettengill - May 5, 2009

There is no frill and then there is no frill. I've looked at SNHU courses, but they offer the kind of classes that require no frills in terms of educational infrastructure. Instead I've taken a lot of my classes at NH's community colleges because they do spend a lot of money on things other colleges consider frills: lab equipment, in this case being machine tools, welding equipment, automotive equipment, air craft equipment. And I've gone to U Mass Lowell where they have plastics processing equipment.

The big secret for a lot of the universities with the lab equipment is their partnership with industry and their "night program" where the tuition is a fraction of the price for the "day" classes.

And for students near State lines, the other big secret is that the "night" school tuition is generally blind to resident/non-resident students for State funded schools.

A smaller secret is the interstate compacts between schools which significantly lower tuition for out of state students for the specialized programs during the day. So, if I were to take plastics engineering full time in Mass from NH, the tuition would be half the out of state tuition, though not as low as the in state tuition.

There is a sound business reason for these deals on tuition: volume. Many colleges and universities seek to generate higher student volume by lowering the rates, and when they have significant investment in capital, widening the customer base to out of state is more easily justified, and and helps to justify the investment in all the capital, especially when out of state industry helps fund the equipment.

And the colleges and universities with the equipment specialized to an industry are attuned to pulling in students to fill their mainline though streamlines "liberal arts" classes. Again, it is about generating the student volume and keeping the college facilities in use 16 hours a day.

michael pettengill's picture
michael pettengill - May 5, 2009

There is no frill and then there is no frill. I've looked at SNHU courses, but they offer the kind of classes that require no frills in terms of educational infrastructure. Instead I've taken a lot of my classes at NH's community colleges because they do spend a lot of money on things other colleges consider frills: lab equipment, in this case being machine tools, welding equipment, automotive equipment, air craft equipment. And I've gone to U Mass Lowell where they have plastics processing equipment.

The big secret for a lot of the universities with the lab equipment is their partnership with industry and their "night program" where the tuition is a fraction of the price for the "day" classes.

And for students near State lines, the other big secret is that the "night" school tuition is generally blind to resident/non-resident students for State funded schools.

A smaller secret is the interstate compacts between schools which significantly lower tuition for out of state students for the specialized programs during the day. So, if I were to take plastics engineering full time in Mass from NH, the tuition would be half the out of state tuition, though not as low as the in state tuition.

There is a sound business reason for these deals on tuition: volume. Many colleges and universities seek to generate higher student volume by lowering the rates, and when they have significant investment in capital, widening the customer base to out of state is more easily justified, and and helps to justify the investment in all the capital, especially when out of state industry helps fund the equipment.

And the colleges and universities with the equipment specialized to an industry are attuned to pulling in students to fill their mainline though streamlines "liberal arts" classes. Again, it is about generating the student volume and keeping the college facilities in use 16 hours a day.

Payam Minoofar's picture
Payam Minoofar - May 5, 2009

I lived in Europe, and I taught at two universities in the Netherlands and in Germany. I would like to address the following major, major flaws in this story.

It is VERY common for students to live on their own. Those who need help either work or get financial aid. The situation isn't so different from that in the US.

The frills that are conspicuously absent in European universities are football teams, basketball teams, gymnastics teams, soccer teams, etc., etc. EU universities are not in the entertainment business. Athletic facilities at European universities belong to the students.

Lastly, education at European universities is free, or otherwise available at a modest cost for which every needy student receives aid. Free education. This is a frill that NOT ONE American university offers.

It would be so nice if a journalist were discerning enough to identify the "frills" in an educational system correctly.

Furthermore, it would be nice if the journalist were to recognize that such "frills" are part and parcel of a market oriented educational system in which students get what they pay for. If we want to get rid of the frills, then we should offer what the EU offers: free education. The marketplace has perverted the mission of American universities, but Marketplace is far too timid a source to confront this reality.

Payam Minoofar, Ph.D.

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