A revamp for Title IX

Make Me Smart April 19, 2024 Transcript

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Kai Ryssdal 

Also, it’s Friday, who cares. It’s Friday.

Kimberly Adams 

Anything goes on a Friday.

Kai Ryssdal 

Oh, calendar notification. Bonzai to vet. Hey everybody. I’m Kai Ryssdal. Welcome back to Make Me Smart, where we make the day make sense. It is Friday, Friday, Friday, the 19th of April.

Kimberly Adams 

We have to sing it like that. Who is that girl who’s sang the Friday song that was very meaningful at the time? Rebecca something.

Kai Ryssdal

I don’t remember.

Kimberly Adams

I’m sure someone in the chat will tell us. Anyway, I’m not Rebecca. I am Kimberly Adams. Thank you for joining us on the podcast, as well as folks joining us on the YouTube live stream. It is Friday. That means we are doing our weekly happy hour, which we like to call Economics on Tap. And thank you for joining in.

Kai Ryssdal 

We are going to do as we always do. Some news on this Friday. We’ll take a break. Then we’ll play a game. I believe Drew’s on tap today. But before we get to it, let’s talk drinks. I, as promised in the newsletter today. I’m having a cup of coffee because I got some things to do afterwards. Starting with washing the dogs by the way.

Kimberly Adams 

I feel like I have an advantage for you for the happy hour because it’s like early afternoon for you.

Kai Ryssdal 

Oh, I know. I know. I know.

Kimberly Adams 

Because it’s only the end of the day for me on happy hour.

Kai Ryssdal 

And here’s the problem. If I start drinking now, I have to keep drinking and, you know, by like 8:15 my time I’m like. And I don’t have time for that today.

Kimberly Adams 

Yeah. I get up at like three o’clock in the mornings on Saturday, so I pretty much have this drink and then I go to bed.

Kai Ryssdal 

Why do you get up at three o’clock in the morning on Saturdays? Are you going diving or something?

Kimberly Adams 

So, I can be someplace at 4:30am.

Kai Ryssdal 

What are you doing at 4:30 in the morning? Not that it’s any of my business.

Kimberly Adams 

I mean, I’m okay. I’m on C-SPAN on Saturday.

Kai Ryssdal 

Oh, right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right, right. Wow. Wow. Wow.

Kimberly Adams 

So, I have my drink. I get my stuff together. You know, do my nails or whatever else I have to do and go to bed. That’s pretty much it.

Kai Ryssdal 

Oh my god. Oh my god. Well, what are you drinking for your one drink of the day?

Kimberly Adams 

My large, extra-large, drink. I definitely got my proportions off when I was making this drink. It is a rum punch. It is made with a tropical habanero syrup that I got from this local DC company that makes syrups for spirits called Pratt Standard, I think is what they’re called. So, it’s a tropical habanero syrup, orange juice, and the recipe called for pineapple juice, but I didn’t have any, so I use like a San Pellegrino Tangerine and Wild Strawberries sparkling water, and then rum. Of course, rum.

Kai Ryssdal 

Do you get the habanero through there? Do you really feel it?

Kimberly Adams 

Yeah, there’s a nice little bit of heat. And I use spiced rum instead of white rum, so it’s got a really interesting flavor profile. I like it. I’m on the vibe of the summery drinks the past couple weeks.

Kai Ryssdal 

There you go. Somebody in the chat.

Kimberly Adams 

Ah yes, Courtney says it was Rebecca Black who did the Friday song. Thank you Courtney.

Kai Ryssdal 

There you go. I remember that one. I remember that one. Bob Cat in the chat is drinking dark rum on ice. So, there you go. You’ve got some company today.

Kimberly Adams 

Yes, people are not liking my early wake up I see.

Kai Ryssdal 

Barbara says she thought it was going to be a one off when you said you were going to be on C-SPAN a couple of weeks guys now. Are you the regular Saturday person?

Kimberly Adams 

Sometimes, I do Sundays. But yeah, it’s pretty much a regular Saturday gig. Yeah, it’s fun. It’s really interesting because like, people call in and you know, you can be a Republican. You can be a Democrat. You can call on the independent line. And you really do get a sense of like, what people are thinking about what’s going on in the country. And sometimes people say wild stuff, but for the most part, it’s people who are like, deeply engaged and care about politics and you know, just want to have a space to say it. And it’s been really fascinating and definitely informs some of the stuff that you know, I bring the Marketplace like, you know, in terms of ideas. I hear from people. Yeah, so anyway, what’s everybody else drinking?

Kai Ryssdal 

Well, here’s it. So, Kate Gilbert might win today. She’s drinking a float. It’s chocolate ice cream, cream soda, and vodka.

Kimberly Adams 

Yeah. Nice. Nice. Let me hop over to the Discord to see what y’all are drinking. Alright. Let’s see. Tyler is having the Aviation Gin, says with kindred spirit in anticipation of my upcoming flight instructor practical test. Okay, Tyler. Good job. Good luck.

Kai Ryssdal 

Good deal, Tyler. Congratulations, man.

Kimberly Adams 

Good luck. Oh, that’s amazing. Okay, let’s see. Everybody’s looking forward to the weekend.

Kai Ryssdal 

Oh my God. Minnesota. Greetings from frosty Minnesota. Went for a walk in 30 degrees with 12-degree real feel. That’s absurd. That’s absurd. I’m sorry.

Kimberly Adams 

Oh, wait. Tyler says it’s not Aviation Gin, but an aviation cocktail made with Tanqueray gin. I don’t know what an aviation cocktail is. I’m sure I’ll find out. What else do we have in the YouTube chat?

Kai Ryssdal 

Michael Cooper wants to know how early he needs to wake up to call into on CSPAN.

Kimberly Adams 

7am Eastern. The show goes from seven to 10 Eastern, although tomorrow because the House is coming in. I think at nine. It’s going to end early.

Kai Ryssdal 

How long do you usually go? Wait, sorry. Is it like three hours?

Kimberly Adams 

Yeah, it’s a three-hour show.

Kai Ryssdal

All right. Wow.

Kimberly Adams

Let’s see. Lots of guys drinking water. And Paul is also drinking water. Cheryl’s going to order a gin and tonic now that Cheryl is on a plane. Safe flight. Guy is drinking an Indian mango panna. You know, I’m allergic to mangoes.

Kai Ryssdal

Are you?

Kimberly Adams

Yeah, I’m allergic to mangoes. And it’s to the point where it’s, you know, if you have an allergy, like at first you have a small reaction and the more you’re exposed to it, the reaction gets worse and worse. I’m now at the point where if I have mango, it really starts making me feel like my throat is swelling up. It’s bad. So, there’s like all of these cocktails I cannot have, or sometimes I’ll have something I won’t realize mangos in it. And I only discover it because I start feeling that reaction.

Kai Ryssdal 

Oh, yeah. That’s horrible. All right, shall we? Anyway. This is learning about Kimberly’s interesting little things here.

Kimberly Adams 

All the things in my life. All the details. Yeah. What’s your news, Kai?

Kai Ryssdal 

Mine isn’t newsy as much as it is God’s Smacky, and the throughline here is that rich people have too much time and too much money. There’s a great piece in Bloomberg about how rich people in New York state are getting creative to fleet state taxes. Auditors are on to them. So, rich people. I’ll just read the first sentence. “At New Jersey’s Teterboro and Long Island airports, dozens of private jets destined for Florida take off at times such as 11:42 pm or 11:54 pm. Over at JFK, a regular flight from San Juan, Puerto Rico arrives at a seemingly purposeful time: about 15 minutes after midnight.” This is all so the very wealthy can leave New York, declare residency elsewhere, and not get nailed with New York state taxes. For the ultra-rich, the piece says, “even an extra day in the wrong place could mean millions in income tax liability.” Tell me again that our tax code makes any sense.

Kimberly Adams 

I will not. I will not.

Kai Ryssdal 

It’s crazy. It’s a wild piece. It’s a wild, wild, wild, wild, wild piece.

Kimberly Adams 

That’s sort of the next thing that I’m looking at. You know, you and I have both been doing reporting on sort of what fuels you know, the national debt and deficits and things like that. And the next thing I’m looking at in that regard is stuff in the tax code that incentivizes certain social behaviors that contribute to the debt and the deficit, but that’s one section. A whole other section is just the way that it really let some people get away with stuff.

Kai Ryssdal 

Look, you know, this is the New York state tax code, not the Internal Revenue Code. But to be clear, there are loopholes everywhere. It’s just bananas.

Kimberly Adams 

Yeah. Yeah, it’s bananas. Do you still have the banana pants? Did they even ever fit you or what was that situation?

Kai Ryssdal 

My banana pants never fit. They were like for a ginormous man, and I am not that. So no, I don’t have any banana pants. I’ve been in shirts, and I’ve been in his sweatshirt, which is the most comfortable sweatshirt in the world, but otherwise no. Don’t have it.

Kimberly Adams 

You know, my Marketplace sweatshirt like the one with like the sort of headphones over the logo is so comfy. I wear that thing all the time. I love it. It’s just thin enough, so that it doesn’t make me like hot and sweaty, but it’s very cozy.

Kai Ryssdal 

So, mine is actually wearing out. It’s getting a little frayed around the collar. So, if anybody in St. Paul in the swag shop is listening, let’s get those back in rotation and send me one or two, would you?

Kimberly Adams 

Yeah, those are great. My news is, you know, I love a good federal regulation.

Kai Ryssdal 

You have got to get out more. Oh, no. I’m sorry. You can’t because you have to get up at three o’clock in the morning on a Saturday. You dork.

Kimberly Adams 

I like the work. I like the work. Okay, so back up a little bit to the Trump administration under the Department of Education under Betsy DeVos, kind of changed the rules under Title IX. So, Title IX are the rules that sort of prevent gender discrimination in public universities or universities that receive federal funding. You know, if you want to be able to have your students get access to federal student loans and all sorts of other funding, you have to adhere to the rules under Title IX. This would be, we were talking about the WNBA and salaries the other day. The reason that men and women’s sports in college have to have more or less, air quote, equal treatment is because of Title IX. Under the Trump administration, they tweaked some of the rules under Title IX about who was covered and who wasn’t, and a lot of people in the LGBTQ community were really upset because it kind of limited their protections in that space, and a bunch of other stuff that bothered people. So, Biden’s administration has revamped the rules. They got something like 240,000 public comments on this, according to The 19th News. Regulations.gov, y’all. So to the suggested updates, they have updated these rules under Title XI. And according to The 19 News, this is the “historic civil rights law preventing federally funded academic institutions from practicing sex discrimination.” Now, it “includes provisions that strengthen the rights of sexual violence survivors during misconduct investigations and of LGBTQ+ individuals who experience school in a way that aligns with their gender identity.” However, “the new regulation stopped short of stating that transgender students have the right to play on sports teams that correspond with their identity, a move that supporters of these young people had hoped for.” And if you pop over to The Associated Press and their coverage of that, it talks about how “the biggest change is recognition that Title IX protects LGBTQ+ students.” And because the law doesn’t directly address the issue. Elsewhere in the reporting on this, it talks about how the new rules help deal with sort of online sexual threats and violence, particularly if someone does like revenge porn or something like that, which obviously didn’t exist when the law was written in 1972. So, there have been a bunch of updates to this rule to try to address what, you know, what it looks like at this point. In the AP, they say “DeVos criticized the new rule writing on social media site X, it amounts to ‘an assault on women and girls.’ She said the new procedure for handling sexual assault accusations mark a return to ‘days where sexual misconduct was sent to campus kangaroo courts, not resolved in a way that actually sought justice.’” So, under the DeVos rules, like for example, if someone had accused someone of sexual misconduct, but both of them were students and say, like the same lab, this was one of the examples given in, I think it was The 19th. Whoever showed up first got to stay in the lab and the other person had to leave. So, what was happening is somebody would accuse someone of sexual misconduct. And then, that person who was being accused would like, show up extra early to lab and make sure they basically couldn’t go to class. So, any who, definitely worth looking into and unpacking these new rules because it matters for a lot of students. And this is how the federal government exercises power in spaces that are not under direct federal authority by setting rules around how you get access to funding. So, that’s my news.

Kai Ryssdal 

Totally. No, those are important stories. I’m glad you brought those up. We’re done for the news. Quick break, and when we come back, Half Full/Half Empty with Drew Jostad. Here we go.

Kimberly Adams 

Okay, we are back. It is now time to play Half Full/Half Empty hosted by the wonderful Drew Jostad. Drew, take it away.

Drew Jostad 

First up, are you half full or half empty on the rise of big drive-thru?

Kai Ryssdal 

Oh, so this is a story I did this week. An interview I did with a woman from Vox. A reporter from Vox about not just one lane drive-thrus, not just two-lane drive-thrus, but three, four and five lane drive-thrus, which have become more common and more consumer desired since the pandemic. The catch is of course that they mess up traffic, and are sometimes unsightly, and cities are limiting them. There is in my little town here in the Los Angeles suburbs, a new Starbucks drive-thru that’s opened up, and it driveway goes right onto the main drag through town. And it backs up like crazy and it just completely bollocks this thing, so I am half empty on mega drive-thrus.

Kimberly Adams 

Wait, does it backup because there’s only one lane or does it backup because there are multiple lanes?

Kai Ryssdal 

This one actually is because it’s one lane, but multiple lanes in other drive-thrus backup almost the same way around town. So.

Kimberly Adams 

So, I am going to say that I’m actually half full on this one. We rarely disagree on these. Half full on this one, having been through some multiple lane drive-thrus I find that it makes the whole process move a bit quicker.

Kai Ryssdal

Well, that’s true.

Kimberly Adams

I was in a Chick-fil-A drive-thru at one point I think there were like three or four. And they have that system down pat like it was you go into a lane and then you order and then they tell you which person should move forward and what order so that you can pick up and it sort of like the you end up all funneling to the window, but it just takes some of that line and condenses it. And so, you know, if you’ve got the space for it, sure. And if it keeps people off the main drag Yeah, sure. Why not? Doesn’t bother me.

Kai Ryssdal

Fair enough. Drew, what do you got?

Drew Jostad 

Half full or half empty on giving robots hair?

Kai Ryssdal 

I’m sorry, what? I thought you said giving robots hair. That can’t possibly be.

Drew Jostad 

This is an op-ed in the verge of sort of jumping off Boston Dynamics’ most recent demonstration of one of their new robots saying that all these robots would just be less creepy if they had nice luxurious hair.

Kai Ryssdal 

I think they’re still pretty creepy, man. I’m just saying.

Kimberly Adams 

Let’s see. I read a short story once. It was science fiction, and it had a robot with hair, and it was deeply disturbing. So, I’m going to go all the way empty on this one.

Kai Ryssdal 

Same. I have nothing more I need to say about this. Just saying. Let us not anthropomorphize them, shall we?

Kimberly Adams 

I mean, look, it’s a robot. Let it be a robot. We don’t need to make it organic.

Kai Ryssdal 

Exactly. Lipstick on a pig and all that.

Kimberly Adams 

Yes, that. What’s next?

Drew Jostad 

Okay, going to a couple of stories Sabri did last week about the tipped minimum wage. In 2022, voters in Washington DC voted to phase out the tip to minimum wage and since then, full-service restaurant employment in Washington DC is down 10%. Are you half full or half empty?

Kai Ryssdal 

Interesting question. Go ahead.

Kimberly Adams 

I had very strong feelings about this. Because 2022 was not the first time the DC voted on this. 2022 was the second time that DC voted on this. The first time DC voted to phase out the tip minimum wage, the DC City Council was just like, yeah, no, we’re just going to overturn the will of the voters and do what the restaurant industry says. And they just didn’t do it. And so, then the organizers had to go back and do another ballot initiative to get it back on the ballot. And it was voted for, with an even greater margin, to pass. Look, tipping, and tip minimum wage has its legacy in like slavery, and all sorts of discrimination. Here in DC, I think it’s hard for a lot of people in the food service industry because you can make bank on tips at some of these places in DC, like some of the servers I talked to around the time when this was happening. They’re like, look, I pull $1,000 in tips at you know, a night and this is not going to help me because people are going to stop tipping. I’m touring, you know, I’m half full on getting rid of the tip to minimum wage just because of how I know it affects the systems and then what research I’ve seen about it at least. But on the other hand, I know it’s hurting the restaurant industry here in DC and or so they say, but again, when I think it was Reema who was on Make Me Smart a while back, and I was like, how much does stuff actually cost? You know, we have all of these businesses with business models built on not paying people livable wages. And, you know, whether that means you’re working at a big box retailer, and all the employees are on, you know, food assistance because they don’t make enough money, or whether it’s in a restaurant, and you’re relying on the patrons to make up the gap. We have a lot of business models that are built on not paying people livable wages, and I am half full on those eventually being phased out even though I know the transition is going to be rough.

Kai Ryssdal 

Generally speaking, I associate myself with the remarks made by the gentlelady from Washington DC. My analysis is not as subtle as hers, but fundamentally we have to pay people minimum wages. And I think for the very small fraction of servers in this country who work in high income cities like Washington, DC, New York, Los Angeles, right? I don’t think we can let them skew the rest of the industry, right? Because if you live in Des Moines or you know, Spokane, Washington, you’re not making $1,000 a night in tips. You’re just not.

Kimberly Adams 

No, for sure. You know, and some people in the chat are asking, you know, what’s happens now? I mean, I would encourage you to go and look at Sabri’s. You can still tip. Some restaurants are adding surcharges to cover you know, and some of them use really passive aggressive language on their menus. They’re like, because of you know, this law we have to add this surcharge in order to cover our expenses and they’re really bitter about it. But um, yeah, people still tip. But there was another story on the show today. Was it Mitchell story? No, it was in the weekly wrap that where you all were talking about sort of how everybody’s behavior is changing because of higher prices and be you were like, yeah, not going out to eat as much. I am not going out to eat as much as a result. But when I do go out to eat, I go out to eat planning to spend what I need to spend to make sure I can still tip in a way that I feel is appropriate having worked in the food service industry in the past and knowing that the prices are going to be higher, but it does mean I go out less.

Kai Ryssdal 

Yep, yep. Interesting. Interesting. It’s a thorny subject, right? Okay, Drew. What do you got?

Drew Jostad 

Half full or half empty on Pringles themed Crocs?

Kimberly Adams 

I didn’t see it. I don’t know it. What?

Kai Ryssdal 

Me either and sight unseen, I’m going to say half empty. I’m drawing a line in the sand right there.

Kimberly Adams 

Oh, my God, Kai, you have to see this.

Drew Jostad 

I mean, it’s a pair of Crocs with like Pringles decorations on them and there’s even a Croc boot with a little Pringles holster.

Kimberly Adams 

Yeah, that’s the thing. That is the thing. It has a Pringles holster on it. Oh my gosh.

Kai Ryssdal

Yeah, no.

Kimberly Adams

All the way full. All the way full. Would buy. Would eat Pringles from my boots, 100%.

Kai Ryssdal 

Oh my god.

Kimberly Adams 

All the way full on the Pringles Crocs. At first, I thought it was just going to be a color scheme thing. A color scheme thing, but now that I know that it actually makes it easier to eat chips on the go. All the way full, and there’s like another little pocket. I love pockets. It’s very steampunk. Let’s do it.

Kai Ryssdal 

I have nothing else to add.

Kimberly Adams 

You didn’t give us your half full or half empty.

Kai Ryssdal 

I did too. Right off the bat I said, “sight unseen half empty.”

Kimberly Adams

Okay.

Kai Ryssdal

Right off the bat.

Drew Jostad

He’s sticking to it.

Kai Ryssdal

No, no, no, I am sticking to it. Yeah, just on principle.

Kimberly Adams 

I guess it’s time for the poll now, right?

Drew Jostad 

Correct. Last topic.

Kimberly Adams 

All right, folks in the YouTube chat, get ready to vote in our poll, please. Like this show, as well. And you know, tell your friends. Tell them we’re a lot of fun. It’s entertaining to watch. All right, what’s the last one?

Drew Jostad 

Are you half full or half empty on swapping seats on a plane?

Kimberly Adams 

Did you see the thing with Lizzie?

Kai Ryssdal 

Oh, I did not. Lizzie O’Leary? What happened?

Kimberly Adams 

Yes. Okay. So, there is always controversy about, you know, if you get on a plane and you ask somebody to swap seats with you. Well, I guess Lizzie was on a plane when she tweeted about this and got like, crazy amounts of engagement, and was traveling with her kid and her husband. And they were offering to swap seats with somebody like in first class like to give somebody like, a different seat. I think in first class or something like that. And the person still was like, not game to move. And it’s this whole thing about swapping seats to keep families together. And they had tried to do the thing where they asked the airline to seat them together. The airline basically told them to be at the mercy of the passengers. And so, it elicited this whole big discussion about whether or not it was okay for her to ask what people should do. What they’re obligated to do and things like that. Yeah, so there’s that.

Kai Ryssdal 

That’s so interesting. I think it’s, it’s super contextual, right? Like if there’s a couple with a small baby, and, you know, one of the parents would be separated from the other parent. I mean, flying with a little kid is a nightmare. And so, you want to be able to tag team them. And generally speaking, I’ll move but if it’s some, you know, some guy who wants to sit next to his girlfriend. I don’t know. I don’t know, and is it a window or an aisle?

Kimberly Adams 

You know, I’m reminded of those signs outside like every university registrar’s office, it’s like, the lack of planning on your part does not make an emergency on my part. And I think there’s a mix of that, and sympathy because also plane tickets are expensive. And if you have to travel at the last minute, I mean, I remember. You know, when, you know, when you have like a death in the family or something, and you’re booking at the last minute maybe you can’t get seats together. And so, then you are kind of relying on the kindness of strangers. It matters how you ask. It matters what you’re asking to exchange for. But I also think that the airlines actually need to be doing better about just seating families together, in general.

Kai Ryssdal 

So, let’s close that poll.

Kimberly Adams 

Half full or half empty on swapping seats. You know, my dad used to say, if you don’t ask, the answer is always no. I’m half full on everybody’s ability to ask, but I would hope that people would be respectful when they say no. And, like you said, it’s contextual. So half, I’m just going to go half. I don’t really have a full or empty on this.

Kai Ryssdal 

Generally speaking, I’m half full, but it’s very interesting that you say your half because the poll is 53%, half full, 47% half empty at 180 votes.

Kimberly Adams

It’s a tough one.

Kai Ryssdal

Yeah. No, I agree. I agree.

Kimberly Adams 

You know, Tyler says that. He says, “I’m an enormous human that doesn’t fit well on planes, but I’ll move to accommodate just about anyone.” And Robert says, “absolutely, it matters how they ask.” And someone else said, “I already picked my seat because that’s where I want to sit.” Absolutely. Oh, right. And don’t oversell the seats. Exactly.

Kai Ryssdal 

Yeah, there’s that too. Yeah.

Kimberly Adams 

It also matters like what kind of day I’m having to be honest.

Kai Ryssdal 

Oh, are you kidding me? It’s so contextual. There is no simple answer to this. That’s for sure.

Kai Ryssdal 

The chat is still going on this one.

Kimberly Adams 

Shelly says, “I had a guy get snarky at me when my daughter and I were separated, so I handed him barf bags as she gets air sick a lot. Fixed things right away.” Oh my gosh. Perfect solution. Love it. Love it. Love it.

Kai Ryssdal 

All right. There we go.

Kimberly Adams 

Oh, my goodness. Okay Well, that is it for us today. Thanks, everybody for joining in. If you have a question or a comment that you want to share with us or something you think should go into our Half Full/Half Empty, you know where to reach us. You can leave was the voicemail at 508-U-B-SMART. You can also email us makemesmart@marketplace.org. Did not make much progress on this drink.

Kai Ryssdal 

Well, you got a couple more hours before you have to go to bed. Make Me Smart is produced by Courtney Bergsieker. Today’s episode was engineered by Charlton Thorp. Thalia Menchaca is our intern.

Kimberly Adams 

The team behind our Friday game is Emily Macune and Antoinette Brock. Marissa Cabrera is our senior producer. Bridget Bodnar is the director of podcasts. And Francesca Levy is executive director of Digital and On-Demand.

Kai Ryssdal 

There we have it. Another Friday. As it were.

Kimberly Adams 

It’s good cocktail. I do like it.

Kai Ryssdal 

Good. Good, good. Good. I think habanero heat is just, you don’t need very much.

Kimberly Adams 

But wait, is it a cocktail if I haven’t added any bitters to it. I think a cocktail has to have bitters.

Kai Ryssdal 

I don’t think that’s true. I think if you think that’s true, then you’re going you’re going way too much to the regulations.