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Hey brogrammer, let's crush some code

For women in computer science, Silicon Valley's startup world is still a very male place. And one character stands out: The brogrammer.

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Kai Ryssdal: There's a pretty stark gender gap in technology companies, from the top all the way through the ranks. Part of that's because women don't go into computer science at the same rate men do. But part of it's because once they do, women realize they don't like it all that much. Not the work -- the culture.

Marketplace's Queena Kim introduces us to the brogrammer.


Queena Kim: Meet the Brogammer: part programmer, part fraternity brother. He used to be a geek, now he’s all about beer ‘n’ chicks and the gym.

Tasneem Raja is the interactive editor for Mother Jones online.

Tasneem Raja: Brogrammers are really macho, they have spiky hair, they drink a lot of cheap beer and bag the hottest girls.

Raja recently encountered the species at the South by Southwest Interactive conference when she dropped into a session on how to get a job at a startup. It was by Matt Van Horn, the vice president for business development at the social network Path.

Raja: And so he’s up there talking about this “nudie” calendar that he sent these guys at Digg.

Digg’s the site where Van Horn got his first online job.

Raja: And next he uses the word “gang bang” to describe an interview style.

Raja says at this point, a few women head for the door, but that doesn’t deter Van Horn.

Raja: He told another story about how his fraternity’s recruitment strategy was totally designed to help attract the hottest girls on campus.

Now Raja walks out and fires off this tweet:

Raja: "Biz dev vp of Path just cracked lame jokes about nudie calendars... and gang bang... cue early exit."

The tweet gets retweeted and retweeted. And the responses fell into two camps. The outraged -- and a second group, made up mostly of women in tech, who said:

Raja: Duh, this is nothing new I hear this all the time.

Christy Nicol: One of the problems with computer science is that you have this really homogenous group and no one is challenging each other.

That’s Christy Nicol a software engineer in Seattle.

Nicol: Someone says, I thought it was funny, it was just a joke. The person next to him -- who’s probably a lot like him -- says, “Oh yeah, it was just a joke.” And they say oh we must be right we agree and they move on.

Maria Klawe is the president of Harvey Mudd College, where she’s been pushing to get more women into computer science.

Maria Klawe: Especially in startups you’ll find that there are very few women and a pretty male-centric culture.

How centric? At last count, women made up 20 percent of programmers. Women at startups say that brogrammers have always existed in one form or another. What’s different this time around is that the sexist comments once made to the bro at the next desk -- they’re being blogged, put on discussion boards and on social networks.  

brogrammer tweetLike this tweet (see right) from a programmer at Twitter. The tweet reads: “Learning how babies are made.” Under it, a photo of his company’s “Sexual Harassment Awareness and Prevention” pamphlet.

Twitter declined to comment on the tweet. But Vic Schachter is an employment lawyer and he says these situations can be tricky for social networks. After all they practically exist to blur the lines between public and private.

Vic Schachter: These companies believe in an open, frank conversation and in fact in some cases, I’ve heard some people say, “Privacy, get over it.”

As for the Path executive who sent out the nudie calendar, he didn’t get over his bro-moment so easily. He ended up on CNN’s website apologizing. The news quickly made it to Twitter.

In San Francisco, I’m Queena Kim for Marketplace.

About the author

Queena Kim covers technology for Marketplace. She lives in the Bay Area.

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hithere's picture
hithere - May 16, 2012

It seems to be like the kind of douchebags who would normally get MBAs then go straight to work on Wall Street have decided that tech is the place where you can get rich quick. As a software engineer at a thankfully so-far-un-brogrammer'd company, it makes me sad. Everyone's trying to make millions of dollars with companies named after what happens when you slam the keyboard with a dictionary... We've just gone from one bubble to the next. We have no idea how to run an economy.

edcircus's picture
edcircus - May 15, 2012

I don't work in tech, but there is someone I'm very close to that does. She is one of the few, female, tech entrepreneurs out there. She has a new startup company that got VC backed at the end of last year and is in beta now. I found your story really interesting, especially from the perspective of knowing her. I've never heard her talk about the brogrammer species nor have I seen such a person on her team. Coming from Hollywood, her team is one of the most respectable group of people I've known. Although the tech world is hugely male dominated, she has such an amazing leadership style that, as her company grows, I think we may just see the tech world open up even more for women by example alone.

www.stylesaint.com

Anonyms's picture
Anonyms - May 15, 2012

O M G... I could not believe it when I heard this story. I cannot thank this writer and reporter enough. Look, I am almost 60 and made the bulk of my living over the last 30 years in technology having worked for the biggest players to small startups. I felt redeemed hearing this - SOMEONE IS SAYING IT! Thank you thank you thank you thank you. I have been through hell with these companies and this typical male adolescent and infantile culture. In the 80s, women tended to look the other way - the '...oh, it was just a joke...' club (belying that female's very real fear of rocking their financial boat). Even at the world's most revered creative silicon valley giant, during the 90s, when a celebratory event was planned for the eng group I was in, management chose to hire almost naked women to jump out of giant cakes (the worst) to paintball and other typically infantile male violence-oriented games (the least offensive - it was just boring for most of us few women in engineering their) for "fun" events. While the male cultural thing is still a big turn off to women, the crux of the problem is women who are too cowardly to let management know that this crap is unacceptable, offensive, and infantile. As long as women in the field continue to hide behind the little giggly '...oh, it was just a joke...' BS, it ain't gonna get better.

Thank you again to this reporter for doing this story. IT'S ABOUT TIME!!!!!!

Suggestion: one way to move towards evolution in this is that startups and companies mix up their engineering departments with not just both genders but more age diversity. Generally, older workers (and don't give me that crap about how older workers aren't up to date skill wise - I personally know this to be an excuse for refusing to hire anybody for whom a health insurance policy might seem as if it would be more expensive...) are less inclined towards the 9 year old boy mentality. It's called maturity.

not a team player's picture
not a team player - May 15, 2012

After over 25 years in the IT business, I thought I had seen and heard it all until just last year.

I was told by the MALE Project Manager that there was "too much estrogen on the project". Subsequently, two of us high estrogen individuals were let go when MALE replacements were found.

The "boys" idea of a team get-together - spending the evening at Twin Peaks, Hooters or some other establishment where the wait staff has on barely more than a stripper - at the end of her act.

There is definitely a reason why so few women are in high tech - sexually discrimination/harassment is blatantly rampant among the "boys". Some times it is akin to what working in a locker room must be like. Sports metaphors are thrown around at every meeting. To be able to understand the conversation, I would have been better off studying football strategies or basketball techniques instead of BASIC or C++ programming.

No, I am not a team player. Working in high tech is NOT the same as joining a touch football or basketball pick-up game. Being a team player means YOU think YOU are the coach and I am supposed to follow YOUR game plan exactly. Guess what? I have my own brain and can do my own thinking.

When will you "boys" get it?

Anonyms's picture
Anonyms - May 15, 2012

AMEN!

go get em's picture
go get em - May 15, 2012

With 25 years experience, please start your own company!! You can start by hiring women and only men without the locker room mentality. The boys will get it when you show them how you can do a better job.

eccharbonnet's picture
eccharbonnet - May 15, 2012

Please let's be careful. IT is a diverse career these days. The GEEK groups in a start up organization are indeed one segment and a segment that gets a great deal of notoriety. But there is so much more. Businesses that use various software packages to automate their processes are a very different environment. Men & Women who enjoy solving business problems by helping to translate business needs into package configuration can find a rewarding career that is not populated by geeks. Please investigate these areas so as to give women a much broader view of the rewarding potentials in an IT career.

kp_dooty's picture
kp_dooty - May 15, 2012

Sounds like brogrammers are no different from (male) programmers of yore: insecure geeks who couldn't handle mature human interactions.

seeer's picture
seeer - May 23, 2012

It sounds like ugly stereotypes, and yes a convenient narrative folks like you jump on.

The asperger programmer is sexist, must be so, because you imagine it as your stereotypical image.

Sorry but thats not enough to slander an entire group of people.

This was a poor story, based on a tired narrative, it needs to be corrected.

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