From surprise tariffs, to government involvement in private companies like Intel, to threats to the Federal Reserve’s independence, this year has been full of economic upheaval in the U.S., and many of those policy decisions run directly counter to what most economists would recommend.

Although, rejecting expert economic advice isn’t particularly novel these days according to Andrew Prokop, a senior politics correspondent at Vox. In a piece titled, “Why America gave up on economists,” he argues that our policymakers have been moving away from heeding economists’ suggestions for much longer than just 2025.

Prokop joined “Marketplace” host Kai Ryssdal to talk about what changed and how economists can find their way back into political inner circles.

Listen in the player above to hear the conversation.