This year’s crackdown on immigration may mean a new normal for the U.S. labor market. Before the pandemic, sustainable job growth in the U.S. meant adding around 100,000 new jobs per month, a number that nearly doubled with a surge in immigration over the past few years.

“But now, with net immigration near zero, 40,000 jobs a month on average might be perfectly healthy,” said Wendy Edelberg, a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution.

Marketplace host Kai Ryssdal talked with Edelberg about her recent piece in the New York Times, “We’re Seeing What a No-Immigration Economy Looks Like.”

To listen to their conversation, use the audio player above.