Among the many problems of being a criminal is how to spend your ill-gotten gains. The Associated Press released an investigative piece Monday on how it’s done, a story that features a colorful, convicted mastermind.  

One of the AP reporters on the piece, Erika Kinetz, joined us to talk about how con man Gilbert Chikli used China as a way to launder millions. 

So what makes China such an ideal hub for illegal financial activity?

“I think there are two main reasons. One is the lack of legal cooperation and law enforcement cooperation with the West,” Kinetz said. “And the second is, the Chinese have these incredibly sophisticated and well-developed, underground systems for moving money.”

Click the above audio player to hear the full interview.