Make Me Smart November 3, 2023 Transcript

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Kimberly Adams 

See, I’m glad you dance with me.

Amy Scott 

Of course, it’s a jam.

Kimberly Adams 

It is a jam. Hello, everyone. I’m Kimberly Adams. Welcome back to Make Me Smart where we make today it makes sense. It is Friday. We made it to Friday, November the 3rd, Kai is out today. But as you can see, I have my dancing buddy with me here. Amy Scott. Hey, me.

Amy Scott 

Hey, everybody. Thank you for joining us on the podcast and everybody on the YouTube live stream. It’s Friday, thank goodness. And that means it’s time for economics on tap, our weekly Happy Hour Special.

Kimberly Adams 

And happy hour means cocktails, alcoholic or non whatever your pleasure may be. We’re going to have some cocktails, see what you all are drinking, talk about what we’re drinking. Then get to some news. Take a break then play around have half full, half empty. So let’s start from the top. Amy, what are you drinking today?

Amy Scott 

Well, Kimberly, thanks to Tony Wagner’s prodding yesterday. I had to plan ahead and I decided to make a hot toddy. So I’m showing the audience.

Kimberly Adams 

Oh, what a cute mug.

Amy Scott 

This is my special WYPR WTMD mug, Baltimore shout out. Yeah, it’s gotten the weather has turned shall we say it’s gotten a little chilly. So I made my first hot toddy of the season on Halloween night and liked it so much, I decided to make another one.

Kimberly Adams 

Yeah. So how do you make your hot toddies? What do you put in them? Well, I

Amy Scott 

You know, I kind of like Google the recipe every time because I don’t make them that often. But this is just hot water. Brown sugar, Bulleit bourbon, and lemon juice. And then I today I stuffed a couple of cloves in the lemon like wedge that I put in for a little extra. So yeah.

Kimberly Adams 

Fancy, fancy. I have a you know, I feel badly I don’t actually know how to pronounce it. I think it’s Boulevardier. It’s it’s something fancy. Anyway, last week, I got some on the microphone. So last week, I was kind of at a loss. And I asked ChatGPT to like, I put in all the ingredients that I had in my bar at the moment and asked for a recipe that was Halloween themed and it gave me a cocktail. So this week, I went back to the same ChatGPT conversation and I was like, what’s another cocktail I can make with these ingredients, that’s not Halloween themed?

Amy Scott 

That’s an excellent use of AI Kimberly.

Kimberly Adams 

Hey let the robot overlords make us cocktails. So anyway.

Amy Scott 

It’s the least they can do for us.

Kimberly Adams 

It’s the least they can do. So a Boulevardier, I think is how it’s pronounced but anyway, let’s see what everybody else is drinking if you want to look at maybe a chat and I’ll look in the Discord.

Amy Scott 

Maybe someone can weigh in with the pronunciation. All right, so we’ve got somebody drinking a diet cream soda. Nice. Oh, nice. Somebody else drinking decaf coffee trying to be nice to my tummy. I love it. Let’s see.

Kimberly Adams 

Somebody in the Discord is drinking licorice iced tea, because they Oh, sorry. No, just licorice tea because they caught a cold for the first time in 3.75 years. I’m so sorry.

Amy Scott 

Woah, that’s a long stretch though.

Kimberly Adams 

A long stretch. Yeah, good for you. Michael is drinking Tanqueray and tonic. Gin is the devil not going to you know.

Amy Scott 

Well that said Nathan Schmidt is shaking up a martini so I assume it’s gin, gin or vodka. I assume it’s gin.

Kimberly Adams 

Okay so let’s get to news Amy. Why don’t you go first as my light flickers on and off?

Amy Scott 

Oh yeah hope it stays on. Well at first I want to give a shout out to Morning Edition’s coverage of the is Israel-Hamas war. I’ve been listening every morning as I drive to my barre class and I always have to pause in the parking because it’s.

Kimberly Adams

Your barre class?

Amy Scot

Yeah, you know, barre, barre like barre. It’s an exercise thing that I do.

Kimberly Adams 

Oh, oh, I was like are you studying law? Are you going to take the Bar exam?

Amy Scott 

It sounds like it right. It sounds like either I’m drinking and learning to shake cocktails or yeah, B-A-R-R-E. Okay, anyway, we can cut this. As I’m driving to my exercise class in the morning. I listened to their coverage and today there were reports from people who were finally exiting Gaza into Egypt through the border crossing. And it was just incredibly moving and sad. So, you know, I think those of our, our regular listeners know we’re not NPR, they’re close neighbors, shall we say relatives, just a shout out to their coverage. So I saw this one on Grist. The United Nations is out this week with a new report saying that developing countries will need between $215 billion to $387 billion every year this decade to adapt to changes caused by the climate crisis. And that’s much higher than the UN estimated, even just last year. So it shows how much more dire the crisis is becoming. It’s also far more than wealthy countries have been providing in 2021, developing countries received just $21 billion total for climate adaptation. So they need 10 to 18 times that. And that’s what the UN calls the adaptation finance gap. As I’m sure you know, there’s been a huge debate over how the countries that have really caused the climate crisis by emitting the most greenhouse gases should help these less developed countries pay for the damage, that they’re often paying the biggest price, they’re more vulnerable to things like storm damage and sea level rise and extreme heat. And this report comes out just as world leaders will be gathering later this month for the next COP climate conference COP28 in Dubai, where that issue, I’m sure will be front and center again, at the last cop, which was COP27 in Egypt, wealthy countries agreed to set up a fund to compensate developing countries for the loss and damage created by climate change, which was a huge deal. Countries have been pushing that for that for decades. But now that process is actually stalled, over debates about how it will be funded, who will manage it. And so I think this report comes at a crucial time for countries that are trying to figure out how to prevent loss by of course, mitigating the effects of climate change, speeding up the transition away from fossil fuels, but also, if you pay money to adapt first, you reduce those losses. So things like early warning systems investing in more resilient buildings and infrastructure, and the grist story that will link to cites a study that found that for every dollar spent on adaptation, we can save as much as $10 in potential damage. So worth the investment, but it’s going to be awfully expensive.

Kimberly Adams 

I mean, do you see any any willingness on behalf of the countries that cause this to, you know, increase funding in this direction or to take risks?

Amy Scott 

You know, what’s interesting is that I think it was 21 billion I cited in 2021. That was actually a reduction from the year before. And it was as the global pandemic was costing countries a lot of money, they were kind of turned inward. I don’t know, I think people saw that that step in Egypt as real progress, when they agreed to create at least a fund. But it’s going to take a lot more than you know, promises to really fulfill that obligation.

Kimberly Adams 

Yeah whoo, boy, I think that is going to be such an interesting story to follow in the years to come sort of who pays for the cost. And I know that there was a story out where one of the early alarmists about climate change, you know, came out with a, with a paper, along with a bunch of other scientists saying it’s happening faster than we thought we’ve already kind of blown past 1.5 degrees. And it’s, you know, it’s a serious thing. And we live in a privileged position to you know, not necessarily have felt it directly here, even though other parts of the country have. But pretty soon it’s going to be all of us.

Amy Scott 

Yeah, well, we are feeling it here. And I think that’s what we’ll finally finally get people acknowledge off their couches and do something about it.

Kimberly Adams 

Yeah so, well, I’ve got one political story, one politicalish story. So people who have been listening know that Kai and I have been talking quite a bit about Alabama Senator Tommy Tuberville’s blockage of many military confirmations. And, you know, the Senate is still trying to find ways around this. But there’s a very interesting article that I came across in Roll Call, kind of taking a look at the advise and consent function of the Senate more broadly, when it comes to confirmations. Necause this is a role for the Senate in the Constitution. And, you know, it’s important, but the fact that this could be held up over and over again, by one person in this way, you know, makes people take a look at this a little bit differently. So I’m looking at this the Senate Armed Services Committee estimates it considers 50,000 promotions, each Congress and the 2023 report from the Congressional Research Service, put the number of military appointments and promotions at approximately 65,000 per two year Congress. But the congressional resume the official tally of what the legislative branch does, says they were closer to 40,000 nomination military nominations in 117. The idea that a committee of 25 senators is doing any kind of actual vetting for 40,000 to 65,000 officers is absurd on its face. So why do it because the Constitution says so. But it goes on to say that the framers never imagined a system like we have today. And it’s not just military confirmations that have to go through the Senate. There are other confirmations on the executive side that have to go through confirmations. And you know, it’s just I’ve been so caught up in sort of the day to day of it, I hadn’t sort of step back to think about the process overall. And I thought this was really an interesting analysis of the advising consent role of the Senate. And you know, whether or not it needs another look, in light of the realities of how our government runs today, because that’s a lot of, you know, different. That’s a lot of confirmations. Oh, it looks like we lost Amy’s video, but,

Amy Scott 

I can still hear you. I can hear you. I think my Zoom just shut down. Yeah, but so kind of bananas that so many things that were never envisioned by the founders envisioned that we adhere to.

Kimberly Adams 

Like the two of us hosting a radio show, or existing autonomy.

Amy Scott 

Yeah that was never envisioned. Alright, I think I’m back back on the video. Hi, everybody.

Kimberly Adams 

Fantastic. Okay. I have one other one. So this is my politics story, because it involves yet another federal agency, the Federal Trade Commission. So the Federal Trade Commission is in this big antitrust lawsuit with Amazon. And as part of that process, we get to see all these nice little legal filings. They give us details about the FTC investigation into Amazon and things that they learned. One of them was according to the Hill, Amazon made more than a billion dollars in excess profits by employing a secret algorithm, codenamed Project Nessie, that inflated prices according to a newly unredacted portion of the FTCs antitrust lawsuit. So basically, what this did is, Amazon used this program between allegedly 2015 and 2019. To raise prices by predicting whether other online stores would follow an Amazon price hikes, and using these predictions. According to the FTC, Amazon would raise prices when it was most likely to be followed and would maintain the higher price after other online stores adopted similar price hikes, they would stop doing it around the holidays and more people were watching what the prices were doing. But according to the Hill, Amazon reportedly used this secret algorithm to set prices for more than 8 million items purchased by customers in one month and 2018. That year, the e-commerce giant estimated project Nessie brought in an additional $334 million in profits. So wow, that lawsuit continues to bring out really interesting things about how Amazon operates as a company, and also just you know, how we as consumers shop online and how easily that can be managed.

Amy Scott

I couldn’t help but wonder is this project Nessie, a reference to Nessie the Loch Ness monster? I mean, if so, that just makes it even more kind of cringe right?

Kimberly Adams 

I don’t know. Yeah.

Amy Scott 

This like stealth.

Kimberly Adams

But does it really exist?

Amy Scott 

Good point. Yeah. No one will ever know.

Kimberly Adams 

Except the Federal Trade Commission.

Amy Scott 

I got, I see you Amazon.

Kimberly Adams 

Okay, well, that is it for the news. For now. We’re going to take a quick break and when we come back, we’re gonna play a round of half full half empty and so we will be right back.

Kimberly Adams 

Okay, great. Now it’s time to play half full, half empty. Drew is out today. So we have a special guest host with a wonderful voice. Marketplace Tech producer Daniel Shin. Hey, Daniel.

Daniel Shin 

Hello friends.

Amy Scott 

I love hearing Daniel’s voice.

Kimberly Adams 

I want you to be hosting like a late night jazz show or something Daniel.

Daniel Shin 

I mean that would require me to have a personality or anything.

Kimberly Adams 

Oh no, Daniel, that’s not true. You have a great personality. Anyway, that’s another conversation for later. Let’s do this game.

Daniel Shin 

I’m about to give you a rather, we’re gonna start I guess with a really controversial topic. Are you half full or half empty on our phones getting bigger?

Amy Scott 

Oh, that was a great interview. I am half empty.

Kimberly Adams

No Yeah, buddy about it. Oh,

Amy Scott 

Oh yeah. So yesterday, Kai talked to someone who had written a piece, kind of in search of a small phone and basically couldn’t find one anymore. The closest we can get is like a folding giant Galaxy, I think he talked about so you know, it goes in your pocket. But then when you open it, it’s like too large for most hands to hold. And I can relate I actually have like smallish hands and I still have a smaller phone partly for that reason I want to be able to like actually hold it in my hand. I do miss the flip phone. Although I do like what I can do and watch on this, this screen.

Kimberly Adams 

You can still get flip phones.

Amy Scott 

That’s what I hear but the apparently that it’s getting harder to find or maybe phones that have functionality. What about you Kimberly?

Kimberly Adams 

Fair. I wanted to get, so I, is what was the question was it are we half full or half empty on bigger phones or smaller phones?

Daniel Shin

Bigger phones.

Kimberly Adams

Bigger phones, half empty. I also prefer a smaller phone which is one of the reasons that I consistently kept buying like the iPhone 6s or the iPhone SE refurbished over and over and over again, a because it was cheaper. But B, because like I just didn’t, it doesn’t fit in the very limited pockets that women get anyway, they do not fit when they get much bigger. And so I like held on I think it’s still sitting over here. I still have like an iPhone SE that I use sort of day to day, but then it broke down and I got a different phone. And it’s one of the bigger iPhones to use for you know, like Tik Tok videos and you know, taking photos and video for our social media stuff that we do for Marketplace. By the way, we’re on Tik Tok now if you’re you know, okay with the cybersecurity component go follow us.

Amy Scott 

So anyway, maybe some of us, some of us are on Tik Tok. You know, we you mentioned the camera. That’s one thing that I would not want to give up. I mean, the cameras just getting better and better. And I love I’m the kind of person who loves to take pictures spontaneously but would never drag a big old Nikon around. So if I have to if it has to be a trade off and I need a big phone for the big camera. I guess I’m okay with it.

Kimberly Adams 

All right, what’s the next one?

Daniel Shin 

Number two, are you half full or half empty on the concept of super commuting?

Kimberly Adams 

So this is a story about people who travel extreme distances to get to and from work trying to take advantage of remote work where they don’t have to come into the office every day, and live someplace cheaper, bigger. And then just commute extraordinarily long distances, sometimes taking a flight every day, to get where they need to go for work or not everyday. Taking a flight whenever they have to go to work. I’m half empty, don’t love the carbon footprint of it. But I also get it because you know, it’s expensive to live in these places. I also on the other hand, though, I feel like the people who often end up with the kinds of jobs where they can do the super commutes tend to skew a little bit wealthier, more white collar. And so I’m half empty, I think like, either get a job where you can work fully remotely or, you know, try to live where you work as best you can. Although if you’ve got like caregiving responsibilities for a relative out of state, like I get that too.

Amy Scott 

Yeah, I would say I’m happy half empty as well, I think. I mean, we know what the toll that commuting takes on people’s lives and health and you mentioned the climate crisis. So, but I’m also you know, if so many people are forced or have been forced into really long commutes just because of housing affordability challenges having to live further further from the truth about their jobs. And some people are doing super commutes like involuntarily, right. So yeah, I just think if we if we can figure out ways to limit or at least driving a lot, that would be good. And flying to your job. I mean, I get it sometimes, you know, families are separated and there’s a period where you’d have to commute to your job long distances, but I don’t know. That’s why it’s called half empty half full. It’s I don’t have to fully commit I can just be wishy washy about it.

Kimberly Adams 

You can be halfsies. Although B Patton says in the YouTube chat long commutes equals time for Marketplace podcasts.

Amy Scott 

Hey no, that’s a good point B Patton. Cheers to that.

Kimberly Adams 

Good job. All right. What’s the next one Daniel?

Daniel Shin 

I’m afraid you can’t be wishy washy with this next one. For half empty on company mandated cybersecurity trainings, which I assume you’ve all already done.

Kimberly Adams 

I did mine the day after I got the email. Thank you very much.

Amy Scott 

Oh my goodness, you’re putting me to shame.

Kimberly Adams 

Have you done yours yet?

Amy Scott 

I will let me just say we’ve recently changed to these shorter quarterly trainings. I’m half full on that, please more of this, you can get it done.

Kimberly Adams 

As opposed to the three hour ones.

Amy Scott 

Right? Because I mean, the other one we do on harassment is it’s like the same content every year, but they change the actors and the backgrounds. And it’s like, come on people work. We’re content creators.

Kimberly Adams

They added some nonbinary folks.

Amy Scott

That’s true every year, it does get a little bit more progressive on the gender stuff. That’s true. But it’s still like, you know, I kind of feel like I’ve seen this movie before. And it takes a lot of time out of your day. So I think breaking it up into more digestible chunks is a lot better.

Kimberly Adams 

So despite myself, I am half full on this because some of these phishing attacks are getting incredibly sophisticated. And with all of these, the AI, factoring into it and some of the stuff I see that my mom gets, and even I’ve clicked on, you know, the errant fake phishing message to that they use to test you and fail. I got a weird phishing message as a text message the other day, that said, you know, I had a delivery at the post office that wasn’t going through and they needed me to come and get it, sent a screenshot of it to my friend who works for the Postal Service. And she was like, Yeah, this one’s really getting a lot of people. So I’m half full, because it’s it’s rough out here in these cyber streets. Yeah.

Amy Scott 

And you know, a few years ago, David Brancaccio and the Morning Report crew did this great series on aging and the brain and how we, as we age become more susceptible to these kinds of attacks, the scanner was able to to recognize them. And so I do think training is good, especially as the scams adapt and evolve.

Kimberly Adams 

Yeah. And a lot of people are pointing out in the chat that the Marketplace Tech had a story about the AI writing the phishing emails now which can make it just so much more sophisticated. Yeah, okay. And when lots of people have gotten the UPS text as well, USPS, sorry, USPS text. All right, Daniel, what’s the next one?

Daniel Shin 

Number four, are you half full or half empty on the celebrity tequila boom.

Kimberly Adams

Go ahead Amy.

Amy Scott 

If I were a celebrity, I would have my own tequila. I mean, what else are they supposed to do to make money?

Kimberly Adams 

Especially during the actor strike. Well, a lot of them are on, what is that thing, Cameo? Where you can get to record videos for you. So celebrities and tequila, I like tequila, I’m mediocre on celebrities. So half empty because I don’t wanna get

Amy Scott

Just the whole idea of celebrities.

Kimberly Adams

Well, look, because I always worry that when you have these big celebrity branded liquors or wines or whatever, are you crowding out, you know, sort of the crafts people who would otherwise have space on the shelf with a really unique product with just sort of the branding, but you know, yeah, it doesn’t matter that much.

Amy Scott 

Yeah, hopefully they they benefit from some of these partnerships, because we know they’re not like brewing their own tequila.

Kimberly Adams 

Yeah, that’s true. Hopefully. Yeah.

Amy Scott 

I would say I’m half empty to just because, like, do they really need more money?

Kimberly Adams 

Some of them clearly do. So yeah, half empty. It’s next one is the poll, right, Daniel?

Daniel Shin 

That’s right and the last one is,

Kimberly Adams 

So wait one second. So for people I’m sorry, I was just laughing because somebody in the chat said I feel about tequila, the way that Kimberly feels about gin. It is the devil. I’m so sorry, Jason. Anyway, for the poll, if you’re watching in the YouTube live stream, and you’re in the chat and able to participate, Amy and I are going to vamp for a minute or two without hopefully giving too much of our opinion while we tally the votes. And so go ahead, Daniel.

Daniel Shin 

All right, the last one, if you’re half full or half empty on the quote, unquote, last Beatle song that was made with AI.

Kimberly Adams

I think we just learned what Amy feels.

Amy Scott

I let out a noise.

Kimberly Adams 

And you made a face and you made a face. Um, you know, it’s I like some Beatles songs. But I’m not just like the person who’s like the Beatles are everything, and always the best of the world of all history of music. And I appreciate what a movement it was for some segments of, you know, the population, but not everybody. It’s I’m always surprised at their longevity, you know, and their ability to hang on and still draw crowds. And I wonder, you know, ABBA just recently did another song, where they kind of used an AI assist for the video. I think it was.

Amy Scott 

Yeah, were they enjoying somehow with AI of the, I can’t remember exactly what story I’m maybe conflating two. Yeah, but yeah.

Kimberly Adams 

But I do think that it’s, and some folks in the chatter are suggesting this as well. I think that sometimes a gimmick like this can serve to introduce a new generation to some music that they might really like. And that is interesting, and gives them sort of a sense of a time period that they haven’t experienced. And so, you know, if it makes some people who might not have ever listened to The Beatles, you know, give the music a shot for the first time. I think that’s cool. I haven’t actually heard the song yet

Amy Scott 

Yeah I was gonna say so I don’t know this story. I missed this. While it was in the podcast episode, churning cave.

Kimberly Adams 

People are telling me to lower our expectations.

Amy Scott 

Yeah, so was it. Daniel, was it an actual Beatles song that was released with the help of AI? Or was it actually written by AI in the style of the Beatles?

Daniel Shin 

I believe it’s essentially a mash up of sort of The Beatles, the four original Beatles, you know, voices and such.

Kimberly Adams 

Asong that they wrote and so they were able to get the voices because of AI.

Daniel Shin 

Something like that. Yeah, it’s them, but AI sort of brought it home as it were.

Kimberly Adams 

Okay, so Adam in the chat says, it wasn’t made by AI. It was based by on a demo by John, AI assisted in filling in the gaps. And they used AI to separate his voice from the other noise. Brett says they used AI to uncover Lennon’s voice from the piano and lots of people. John wrote it says, Barbara, I love how we’re getting the whole narrative in the chat. Oh, but Gigi asks a good question. Who’s getting the copyright for the song? Huh? Huh? Interesting. Yeah. Okay. Let’s go ahead and what end the poll.

Amy Scott 

Do we have the results?

Kimberly Adams 

We will in a second but are you half full or half empty Amy?

Amy Scott 

I am half empty. Because I mean, I think it’s an interesting experiment actually to, to bring something to life that we couldn’t, you know, have and you know, I am a Beatles fan. And I’m interested to hear it. But I do just worry about you know, the creators, at least John isn’t here to, to say how his voice is used and how his his music and his art are controlled. And so it sounds like Yoko was actually on board with this given what somebody said in the chat, but I don’t know, I just I feel like it doesn’t feel right. It’s just a gut half empty. That’s what it is, folks. How about you?

Kimberly Adams 

I’m half empty on sort of the song and the, you know, sort of gimmicky nature of it, but a bit half full on the technology, simply because I also am worried about creators and their ownership of their music. But I also do think there’s a really unique opportunity to use AI in music, like, you know, take, you know, how would, you know, Mozart interpret a Beyonce song, you know, you could ask AI to do that. And that could be fascinating and fun. And there’s a lot of opportunity to play around that I think could be interesting, if we can set up some guardrails that protects creators because I also think that there needs to be some things that are special, you know, and some of what makes music timeless is the fact that it exists in a time confined by what was happening in that time. And I worry that if we take people’s voices and music and ideas out of their time and their experience, and just mess around with it in with AI, we lose some of the magic of the music. So half, fully half, but that I don’t know. That’s, that’s, yeah, that’s where that’s what I’ve got. Oh we should have given the poll results. Right, half empty 65%, half full 34% with 161 votes on the last Beatles song made with AI and most people seem to agree with you, Amy.

Amy Scott 

I was just thinking about something of an old journalism professor of mine said which is you can get away with anything as long as people know what they’re getting. So I do think you know, if you disclose what’s been done, how it’s been done, so people aren’t fooled into thinking this is some something authentic, you know, maybe play play with the technology see what you can get.

Kimberly Adams 

Yeah. All right. That is it for us today. If you have a question or a comment you want to share with our team you can leave us a voicemail at 508 the letter U the letter B, SMART. Or email us at makemesmart@marketplace.org. I love how that’s like your thing.

Amy Scott 

I love that I have a thing. Make Me Smart is produced by Courtney Bergsieker. Today’s episode was engineered by Jayk Cherry. Our intern is Niloufar Shahbandi.

Kimberly Adams 

The team behind our Friday game is Emily Macune and Antoinette Brock. Marissa Cabrera is our senior producer. Bridget Bodnar is the director of podcasts and Francesca Levy is the executive director of Digital and on demand. I’m so happy to see you, Amy.

Amy Scott 

You too. Have a great weekend, everybody.

Kimberly Adams 

Thank you. I’m running, walking a 5k tomorrow and I’m gonna catch up on all the How We Survive episodes.

Amy Scott 

Oh sounds good, you might need to walk slowly.

Kimberly Adams 

I probably will.