President Trump seems to have softened his stance on border-wall funding as a make-or-break issue to avoid a government shutdown. Instead, he says Mexico will pay for the wall indirectly through the new NAFTA agreement, now known as the United States-Mexico-Canada Agreement (USMCA).

It’s an idea he’s mentioned more than a few times, but so far, the White House hasn’t provided details on how that would would work. Trade experts are highly skeptical.

Click the audio player above to hear the full story.