The national debt is getting pricey

Make Me Smart February 10, 2023, transcript

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Kai Ryssdal 

Jasper laid down in a spot that is not visible. I don’t know what people are gonna do. He’s hiding. Hello, everyone! I am Kimberly Adams and welcome back to Make Me Smart where we make today make sense. I’m Kai Ryssdal, just trying to get the rundown in front of me because it has been a day. Let me tell you that. Thanks for everybody joining us on the podcast and on the YouTube live stream for this edition of Economics On Tap. It’s a Friday, the day in the week where we do the news. We have some drinks, although not drinking right now. And then also a little game at the end.

Kimberly Adams 

Good for you.

Kai Ryssdal

Well, I’m trying. I got I got a soccer game and I’m running around with kids 50 years younger than I am so you know.

Kimberly Adams 

Yes… you don’t want to forget it. I’m glad that you’re not drinking and driving for the win. I am drinking wine. I’m drinking a shiraz. I keep looking around because this is actually my first live stream back in my house since I been back on vacation. And I have like a new router and a new modem. Thank you folks in the Discord who helped me out because remember the last time my computer like went bad right before our holiday one? So people in the discord like suggested a new router and modem for me. So I replaced all that stuff. And my camera is in a yeah… So now my camera’s in a different place. And so I keep looking around like where’s the camera? Alright.

Kai Ryssdal 

That’s great.

Kimberly Adams 

All right news. Why don’t you go first Kai?

Kai Ryssdal 

All right, I’ve got two, one of which is substantive. And one of which is just historically interesting to me. I just want to make sure everybody understands it. And it occurs to me as I say this. I don’t think I’ve said it on this podcast. I think I said it on the radio show. So we are all paying higher interest rates, because the Federal Reserve is raising interest rates, right, we’re paying higher interest rates on car loans and mortgages, although they’re down from their peak, adjustable rate. I mean, you name it, we’re paying more for it. Interest payers in this economy also include the government of the United States. And I think it’s relevant to point out here as the Wall Street Journal writes, this morning, “the Treasury’s spending on interest on the federal debt was $261 billion in the first four months of this fiscal year, that is a 33% increase from 196 billion spending the same period last year.” So we are spending so much more money, it’s like funny money now, the numbers are so big, but we’re spending so much more of it because interest rates are going up and everybody needs to be aware of that. And as the debt limit approaches, and as people have real conversations about it, and fake political conversations about it.

Kimberly Adams 

More of those.

Kai Ryssdal 

You have to understand, right, more of that, way more of those. People have to understand what is actually going on as interest rates go up and our national debt increases. Right? And look, is it a challenge now? Yes. Is it a systemic economic problem now? No. Does it have to be dealt with? Yes. It’s it’s a really complicated problem. But our national debt is very large, and it is costing us ever more money. Ever more money.

Kimberly Adams 

Yeah, I why don’t you go for your fun one.

Kai Ryssdal 

Alright, so here’s my other one. So I’m a history guy. And also there’s really cool history to be had in the South Pole. And I’m a big fan of Ernest Shackleton, if you know anything about him, he’s the guy who down there with a bunch of people, their boat got trapped on the ice, and he saved every single one of them, over a two plus year expedition, grueling, to get them back to civilization. Anyway, last year or two years ago, the ship the endurance was found at the bottom of the sea, near Antarctica. And because it’s so cold there, and there’s not really very many organisms living in the water. That ship was amazingly well preserved. So there’s that. There’s also now though, a book out about the endurance and about the finding of it, and it’s in the Wall Street Journal, and the review is, and I’m going to read it and I just want everybody to know about it. It’s called the “Ship Beneath the Ice: Endurance Found.” I get no emoluments or remuneration for pimping this book, but It’s just it’s really good. It looks to be really good. That’s it.

Kimberly Adams 

When Trump was president and all of the people like trying to curry favor with the White House, we’re staying at the Trump Hotel which is now a Waldorf Astoria. Someone projected onto the entrance, emoluments enter here over the door.

Kai Ryssdal 

Oh, that’s funny.

Kimberly Adams 

Because, you know, they could stand on… Its, you know, on the street and you’re projecting onto the building. You’re not violating anybody’s, you know, private property. And it was like “emoluments enter here.” Anyway, that book looks really good. I hope they make it into a movie too. Well, but that would be a really cool like documentary to see as well. Speaking of documentaries, have you seen the documentary about the Thai football team about the kids that got rescued by the diver?

Kai Ryssdal 

Oh, no. It’s supposed to be really good. Who do who did it?

Kimberly Adams 

My gosh, it was so good. The same guy who did the Free Solo one?

Kai Ryssdal 

Yes. Yes. Yes.

Kimberly Adams 

That documentary is so good.

Kai Ryssdal 

Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Yes. For sure. It’s supposed to be great.

Kimberly Adams 

It’s very good. I’ve seen it. I actually got my sister and my mom to watch it. And they’re not huge documentary people, but they both it’s like, you know how it’s going to end but you’re still like edge of your seat.

Kai Ryssdal 

Right. Right. Right.

Kimberly Adams 

Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Okay, well, I have two as well although I see everybody’s requests for Jasper in the chat. Jasper is here. He was just behind me. (Points to the adorable cat that is napping on the bed). He’s napping. There. Everybody happy now? Great. Everyobody comes for the cat. Not for me. That’s fine.

Kai Ryssdal 

Ryan Coleman. It was Jimmy. It was Jimmy Chin and his wife. I think it’s his wife, Elizabeth Vasarhelyi. Who did that movie on the on the soccer team? Yeah.

Kimberly Adams 

Yes. Alright, so I also have two. My first one is related to the Superbowl. Hat tip to Richard Cunningham produced our New Year’s show who highlighted this one. It’s an article in Teen Vogue, about you know why this person isn’t going to be watching the Superbowl. And the concept is because football is too dangerous to exist. And that is the premise. And it is so dangerous. And I’ve kind of alluded to this as we’ve been talking about it. But this person really articulated the feelings that I have about it in a nice way. And I’m gonna read just an excerpt. “I know many people make the argument that these players know what they’re getting into. But I find that absurd on a few different levels. First, we’re constantly learning more about just how prevalent concussions and traumatic brain injuries are in the NFL, and how far reaching the effects of such injuries can be. And the racial dynamics of being an NFL player, where you literally put your body on the line for your job cannot be ignored. The 32 NFL owners, none of whom are black, and only two of whom are not white profit profit massively off the labor of players, nearly 70% of whom are black. And in a country where upward mobility for black children is much less likely than it is for white children. How can we ask gifted young black football players to turn away an average of $2.7 million per year salary in the NFL?” And every time I even like, think about football and you’re a history guy, you’ll get this analogy. I think about like ancient Roman Gladiators, who were often people who either were enslaved or coming from very poor backgrounds, and their way to like make it and to live a good life was to literally kill themselves, or each other in the ring for the entertainment of the Roman elites. And if you think about who’s at the Super Bowl, who’s watching the Super Bowl, who owns the NFL teams, it gives that same vibe. And it’s these these guys are really hurting themselves. Like, you know, they get to make that choice for themselves. But it’s it’s problematic. So that’s a really good piece in Teen Vogue. Highly recommend. Another piece I highly recommend. It’s a long read for the weekend, but it’s quite good. Is this piece in The New Yorker magazine about impostor syndrome. And the headline is “why it feels like everyone is faking it.” And it’s the idea that they went. The writer went back and talked to the two women who came up with the concept of an academic paper, not the imposter syndrome, but the imposter phenomenon, because it’s not actually a syndrome. They never said it was a syndrome. They think it’s problematic, that it’s being called a syndrome, because they were trying to describe somebody’s experience, not a pathology. And there’s been all this pushback to the idea of the imposter syndrome, and that it sort of doesn’t address sort of systemic inequities against women and particularly against women of color that actually don’t… undervalue. It’s not that women undervalue themselves, it’s that the systems around us undervalue us, and we’re constantly having to compensate for that. And so sort of everybody encouraging women to own up to imposter syndrome is kind of toxic in a way. It’s a really interesting piece. It’s long but worth reading.

Kai Ryssdal 

Sorry, yes to all of that. And this is completely sideways. And and maybe I’m out of my lane. But but no, I don’t think I am. Because honestly, this is a societal conversation that we should have. Did you see the piece in The New York Times Magazine last weekend about menopause?

Kimberly Adams 

No, I didn’t what was about I mean, it’s about menopause.

Kai Ryssdal 

Unbelievable, you gotta read it. It’s, it’s so good. It is so good. And the the idea that half of the population, slightly more than half I think, deals with menopause. And it’s like, barely talked about barely taught in medical schools. Little understood, and women deal with it. So alone. It’s amazing, highly recommend, highly.

Kimberly Adams 

It’s kind of like that piece that we talked about a while back, you know about and I found it very interesting. So I didn’t realize this was a regional pronunciation, but about the cli-TORIS as opposed to the CLI-toris, which is what I said. But, or maybe that’s just like a conservative upbringing thing where nobody ever said it out loud. And it’s only read it until I was an adult. But, you know, there are all these things that affect women that just don’t get discussed. And you know, and so I’m definitely happy to that it is getting covered. And so yeah, I’m gonna go back and read that menopause. Awesome.

Kai Ryssdal 

It’s really good. All right, we’re gonna make it. We’re gonna make a slightly awkward turn here. But you know, gotta pay the bills somehow. Here’s the deal. Right? You know, we could only have these conversations, me and Kimberly, when all y’all support us, right? We do news, we do information, we do context. And we do thoughts on issues of the day on Marketplace and on Tech and on the morning show and on this podcast, and all the other stuff Marketplace does. None of it, though, is free. So we’re coming to you again, as we do from time to time now through Valentine’s Day, you can show your love for marketplace by starting a $5 a month donation and in return, we will thank you with an investor t-shirt. My friend, Kimberly Adams will show you hers because I do not have mine on. It has a logo on the front. It says I’m invested in marketplace on the back. It’s gray. It’s it’s quite stylish. Yeah, mine looks exactly the same as hers, except it’s on the chair inside and I didn’t have time to get it. You can only get them though, on our donation form. So try that. Would you have $5 a month? We could we could really use the help.

Kimberly Adams 

Yes. Yes. And it’s comfy. I can tell you. I always get these shirts and like very, very large sizes so I can sleep in them because they are comfy and nice. And yeah, but we’d really appreciate your support. It does matter. And you know, it keeps us honest. Because we know that we’re always accountable to you all and not necessarily to the clicks and what’s popular and what people might want to say but what we actually think serves our audience. And so we would definitely appreciate your support once again. Marketplace.org/gifvesmart, you could also find the link on the show notes and yeah, we’d be grateful.

Kai Ryssdal 

Quick break and when we come back, half full will happen.

Kimberly Adams 

All right, this is half full half empty or half empty half full depending on your mood. And it is a game where our very own Drew Jostad gives us news topics and we tell you how we are feeling about them. And for our last round. You get to tell us, at least if you’re following along on the YouTube Live Stream, you get to tell us how you are feeling about them. Drew take it away.

Drew Jostad 

Are you half full or half empty on alcohol brands other than Anheuser-Busch getting their chance to advertise at the Super Bowl?

Kai Ryssdal 

Oh, yeah, very interesting. So Anheuser-Busch gave up its 33 year exclusive with the Super Bowl this past June. So now there’s gonna be all kinds of other stuff. There’s going to be Molson. And there’s going to be spirits and all kinds of stuff. Look, I’m half-full, you know, I look forward to some good ads. That’s really all it is. But yeah.

Kimberly Adams 

That’s so funny as St. Louis person, I had no idea that it was the exclusive rights. I just thought, you know, they are big, and that’s why they did it. And, you know, Clydesdales was such a powerful part of my childhood, every parade every big event. They bring out the Clydesdales and St. Louis in the area. We take field trips to Grant’s Farm, which is this like farm area, where the Clydesdales actually live when they’re not on tour. And, yeah, so as long as the Clydesdales are still somewhere present, I will be happy to look at other ads, but I still want to see the horses. That’s all so for half-full still nevertheless,

Kai Ryssdal 

Half-full, equal opportunity. There we go. Drew

Drew Jostad 

Okay. Are you half full or half empty on the Super Bowl halftime show? Featuring Rihanna.

Kimberly Adams 

All the way full. Love her. Wanna see what she does

Kai Ryssdal 

How can you not be full? It’s gonna be awesome. It’s gonna be awesome.

Kimberly Adams 

I don’t think she does bad shows

Drew Jostad 

Quick, easy one. All right. Half full or half empty. Let’s see, a group of 10 former NFL players is suing the league claiming that they were improperly denied disability benefits. Are you half full or half empty?

Kai Ryssdal 

I’m I’m all the way full on that suit. And all the way empty on the way the NFL treats its labor pool, right? I mean, that’s, you know, we were just talking about this with Kimberly’s news item. It’s look, there are known health risks in playing the sport. And yes, they’re all adults. And they do it voluntarily. But the league doesn’t do all that very much to help them out. So half full on the suit, half empty on the waiting.

Kimberly Adams 

Same. Same. I hope they win. Just, yeah, there’s so much money in this system that the least they can do is make sure these folks get the care they need.

Drew Jostad 

All right, I got one more for the Super Bowl themed half fulls. Last one last one. Yep.

Kai Ryssdal 

Okay last one. Poll people pay attention. There are 315 of you on this on this thing. So we should have 315 votes.

Kimberly Adams 

Yes. Let’s do it.

Kai Ryssdal 

I don’t know if Kimberly’s sister is here.

Kimberly Adams 

I don’t think so she usually makes herself known.

Kai Ryssdal 

That’s true.

Drew Jostad 

According to a survey from the Workforce Institute, 18 million Americans, 18 plus million Americans are planning to take a sick day on Monday after the Super Bowl. Are you half full or half empty?

Kimberly Adams 

You know, it’s funny. I had a doctor’s appointment this afternoon. And as I was leaving, the guy at the front desk was like, “Oh, are you watching the Super Bowl this weekend?” And I was like, probably not. He was like, “then what are you gonna have to talk about on Monday?”

Kai Ryssdal 

Look, that’s that’s not an unreasonable thing. Right? There was. Right? No, totally. There’s also this game. I don’t know if you remember John Carney, right? Who used to be on the on the Friday show. Now writes for Breitbart. And those two things are related. But John would play a game that involved not intentionally not finding out the score of the Super Bowl. And trying to be like the last person on the planet not to know.

Kimberly Adams 

Why?

Kai Ryssdal 

I forget what it was called. I don’t know. I don’t know. Just because

Kimberly Adams 

Ramplow says in the chat don’t like working harder because other people can’t control their drinking. Fair. All those people calling in sick because they didn’t handle themselves at the Super Bowl party are making it harder for those who do remain who do come into work on Monday. So I’m gonna be half empty. I’m gonna be half empty on this. I don’t think that’s, that’s cool.

Kai Ryssdal 

If you’re gonna take the Monday off, sorry go ahead.

Kimberly Adams 

Well, I was gonna say what I think you’re gonna say go ahead.

Kai Ryssdal 

Well, yeah, if you get paid vacation, which not everybody in this economy does. It’s important to note. Take take a day vacation. Right? Yeah, plan in, let people know. The comment. The comment was a great one. Right? Somebody’s got to do your work if you’re not there. And so, you know, let everybody know you’re not gonna be there

Kimberly Adams 

Although, although, you know, one could argue a bad hangover. You are pretty sick.

Kai Ryssdal 

Oh, Kimberly. Now you’re just enabling.

Kimberly Adams 

I’m not going to enable I’m saying it’s a bad thing. Look, I just did an hour long special on substance use disorders. I have a lot of things to say on alcohol use disorder and the there is no healthy amount of alcohol to drink none at all. And so let’s just you know, be real about it, but it does indeed make you sick. Anywho well, that was a bright way to end things.

Kai Ryssdal 

Here are the results though. So super sick Monday and this is from Mel, thank you in the Slack because I still don’t know how to work the bleeping poll on the thing. Oh, it’s right there. Half full 50%, half empty 49% poll complete. 207 votes what happened to the other 108 on you? That’s what I want to know. Yeah.

Kimberly Adams 

Yes, indeed. Okay, yes. Well, that was fine. And enjoyed it. And that is it for today. Thank you to everybody who joined on the live stream who was following along in discord. We will be back next week and I hope that you will keep sending us your comments and questions or if there’s a topic that you want us to make you smart about or you want to make us smart about or if you have a question for what do you want to know Wednesday we have so many options for ways to get involved and you can reach us 508-U-B-SMART or you can email us at makemesmart@marketplace.org

Kai Ryssdal 

Make me smart is produced by Courtney Bergsieker. Today’s episode was engineered by Charlton Thorpe. Drew Jostad wrote the theme music to half full, half empty. Antonio Barreras is our intern intern

Kimberly Adams 

The team behind our Friday game is Mel Rosenberg, Emily Macune and Antoinette Brock. Marissa Cabrera is our acting senior producer. Bridget Bodnar is the director of podcasts. And Francesca Levy is the executive director of Digital.

Kai Ryssdal 

Timing is everything.