This week, we’ve got your questions about how to handle sticky situations involving friends and money. Reema is joined by comedians (and real-life friends!) Josh Gondelman and Alison Leiby to give advice on everything from expensive bachelorette trips to nickel-and-diming via Venmo.
We want to hear your takes on friendship and money. Send your reactions to uncomfortable@marketplace.org, leave a message at 347-RING-TIU, or fill out the form at the bottom of the page. And if you’ve got a question of your own, send that our way too!
Reema and producer Alice Wilder shared some listener questions with Josh and Alison, and here’s their advice (lightly edited for clarity and length):
Question 1: “A few years ago I started hanging out with a new friend group. They're all a bit younger than me. I'm in my mid thirties and they're around 30. I'd say we're all solidly middle class, employed, and comfortable enough… but I've noticed that I'll get Venmo requests from them for small things like a latte or my portion of a shared dessert. I'm used to more of a ‘today for you, tomorrow for me’ style. If I cover my friend's coffee, I assume at some point they'll put my cocktail on their tab and so on. Is this an age thing, a trait of this particular group, or if I'm the one who's out of touch?” – New to the Friend Group
Alison: If you’re new to a friend group, then you might need to adjust to the culture of the group. And then maybe over time, as you’re more integrated, it will ease up. It feels like the kinda thing where you might have to just roll with it for a bit and if it becomes unwieldy, then maybe have a chill conversation: “Oh hey, I totally don't mind getting these coffees, and you can just get me back.” But you might also just have to accept that this is how these people deal with their money.
Reema: You won't know unless you talk about money openly in the friend group; you don't know what some people are quietly dealing with, like if they're barely making rent each month or trying to pay off student loans or whatever. And so maybe requesting and sending small payments is not only financially necessary for them, but also soothes their anxiety. I know a lot of people who need to square away that financial math right away.
Josh: This is the kind of behavior that makes more sense when someone either is not making very much money or has financial commitments, like helping a family member pay bills. And so, even though they are budgeting carefully to be able to do the weekends away that everyone else is doing, they don't have that buffer of $75 for buying cocktails for five people, for example.
The “Uncomfortable” verdict: There’s nothing wrong with the way that you handle shared expenses, but it seems like this group you’re a part of just has a different way of going about it. Or they could have some financial concerns that you’re not privy to. You could casually bring it up, or start paying for others and hope that they catch on. But it might be easiest to just go with the flow.
Question 2: “I am in my mid-twenties, and in the next year, I have five weddings, three bachelorettes, and am a bridesmaid in two weddings. I'm on track to spend $1,500 on one of my friend's weddings, with a bachelorette and wedding weekend and outfits. After that experience, I was left feeling like I couldn't spend that much on the next wedding. But one of my other friends is now saying that since everyone else spent that much on the first girl's bachelorette party (we're all in the same friend group), she's thinking about setting the same budget for hers. I feel bad asking about a lower budget for her bachelorette, but I can't keep forking out that much money for every bachelorette. I also, without doubt, make the least amount of money in my friend group and have already asked to pay less for one wedding expense. Any advice on how to navigate these uncomfortable conversations about wedding related expenses?” – The Broke Friend
Alison: This is a scourge on relationships. I hate what weddings have become. If I can do the bachelorette, I will come. And if I can't, then you have to understand that this isn't my wedding, this is your wedding, and I want to be part of things, but I also have obligations. I've had friendships fall apart over this kind of stuff, but if you don't have $1,500 to spend on somebody else's vacation, you don't have $1,500 to spend on someone else's vacation.
Josh: Yeah, I think that kind of candor is really important. It is uncomfortable both to say something that might disappoint a friend, but also to acknowledge I just don't have the money and can't keep up with this lifestyle. You can spell it out to your friend: “Look, I choked down the $1,500 for this bachelorette party thinking that this was going to be the big expense, and that doesn't mean that I can do that every time; it actually signifies I don't have that money to spend again. And it doesn't mean I love you any less; it just means that this came up first, and I didn't realize that this was going to be an ongoing series of expenses.” But you should plan for it to be like a very emotionally fraught conversation with these friends.
Reema: And if you still want to participate in the events, you can say, “Hey, I can only spend about X on the bachelorette.” But there are smaller ways to still make them feel special, like you can take them out or do something that reflects just how excited you are for them – without going to Mexico or whatever.
Josh: And being a member of a bridal party or the groom's party often comes with all these chores, so if you have the bandwidth to handle the administrative part, you can contribute to that labor to show that you care and are invested in this. Showing that you want to be a part of it and that you're doing what you can and making your best faith effort goes a long way with most reasonable people... But I do think weddings turn people briefly unreasonable!
Alice: It sounds like this friend group is starting to build a culture of “we all spend $1,500 on each other's weddings,” and I would wager that you are not the only person feeling stressed out about that! If you can have the courage to have that uncomfortable conversation, it will make it easier for everyone else to have that conversation, too. It is an investment in the friendship to be able to say, “I care enough about you and our friendship to have an uncomfortable conversation rather than quietly resenting that I'm spending this money.” And then you're changing the culture of the friend group, which is a really amazing thing to do.
The “Uncomfortable” verdict: You might be the broke friend in the group, but you’re not being unreasonable by feeling concerned about wedding expenses. Sit down with your friend and explain that you value your friendship, you’re excited to celebrate her, and that you just don’t have the means to pay for this bachelorette party. It’s probably going to be an uncomfortable conversation, but it’s better to talk about it then to hold resentment about the expenses — or spend the next few years paying off the credit card debt.
Question 3: “A friend of mine is out of work and wants me to put in a good word for her at a place where I used to work. The problem is she's kind of flaky. When I've referred her to people in the past, she's never delivered on the promised work, or what she's delivered was low quality. I feel like it reflected poorly on me. Should I tell her why I can't recommend her, or should I just tell a white lie and say that I referred her when I actually haven't? ” – Friend of a Flake
Josh: I would just tell them, “Best of luck, but I don't have a lot of sway over there, so I can't really move the needle with a recommendation on something like this.”
Alison: I don't want to get into giving them the professional feedback of “you deliver low quality work,” etc. It is not my job to tell them that.
Josh: And it's not my problem! I don't need all my friends to be diligent employees.
Alison: But I'm not putting my own name and reputation on somebody else's work.
Josh: This is not something that has to be a part of the friendship; they are trying to opt you into this facet of your relationship where you no longer feel comfortable. You want to be a good friend to this person, and you want to help them out, but you also don't want to do it at the expense of your own other relationships.
Reema: I have been in similar situations, where people have asked me for referrals or recommendations, but I’m not sure how honest to be… especially if their work wasn’t impressive.
Josh: There are ways that you can speak to a person's good qualities without getting out over your skis and being like, “You've gotta hire this person! They're great!!” Instead, you can say what is good about them and you can answer questions honestly. If someone asks what they’re like to work with, then you can say they're a real joy to be around and they're a great presence in the office and they're really talented, but you might have to stay on top of them a little more to get deadlines. You don't have to say, “This person is a flake. They don't do a good job. They blow off work.” But rather, you can say, “As an employee, one of their strengths is they are really knowledgeable and something that they could work hard on is like being accountable on their own timelines.”
The “Uncomfortable” verdict: Definitely don’t lie about having recommended your friend. But you could find other ways to avoid giving the recommendation, like saying that you don’t have sway with your former employer. Or think about what makes your friend a good potential employee, and play up those qualities while being kind but honest about their shortcomings.
Question 4, from Reema: “When it comes to gift giving and friendships, especially on birthdays, how much is too much? Can a $200 birthday gift make things weird? Recently a friend gifted me a $300 gift card for a haircut that was very overdue, and I was very grateful, but there was a part of me that wondered if this was too much money… Do I need to reciprocate with something just as expensive for their birthday?”
Alison: I am a huge gift giver. I just like buying stuff. I like shopping. I like giving people things. But I also have friends who I have purchased expensive birthday gifts for knowing that they don't buy me anything, and I’m fine with that. I think of it as, I’m buying this because I can and I want to, not because this is some kind of ledger transaction that we're keeping track of. I have a friend who I buy a lot of gifts for, and she's not as much of a gift-giver, but she is a chef and throws these amazing parties. To me, those feel the same. It's not a dollar amount.
Josh: It's helpful too, if someone has given you a gift that's not just expensive, but also really thoughtful, then you can match the thoughtfulness. It is a real “thought that counts” situation. You can take them out to dinner, even if it's not the same amount of money, it's the same amount of joy that you are hoping to give them. And I think that's honestly better than, “Oh, I also spent $300, but it's on a thing that you might not care about!”
Do you have an uncomfortable money situation that you want some advice on? Email us at uncomfortable@marketplace.org, leave a message at 347-RING-TIU, or fill out the form below.
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