Author and journalist Aymann Ismail wants his kids to grow up with a real connection to their Egyptian roots, including speaking Arabic. For his family, that means committing to a private Islamic school -- and figuring out how to afford tuition. This week, Reema Khrais talks with Ismail about how he prioritizes his cultural identity, and at what cost. They dig into his family budget to talk about what’s at stake for him, financially and culturally, and why holding onto Arabic feels especially urgent right now.
Ismail’s memoir, “Becoming Baba: Fatherhood, Faith, and Finding Meaning in America,” describes his experience growing up the son of Egyptian immigrants in New Jersey. As a child, he resented that his parents sent him to an Islamic private school but now that he’s a parent himself, he understands why they made that choice… and he’s decided to do the same.
Ismail wants his kids to learn Arabic, so he’s willing to make this financial sacrifice “for the sake of being connected to this massive heritage that they're inheriting.” He explains, “If you're gonna ask me, how important is it that they get that connection? I'm gonna tell you it's everything.”
Figure out your priorities and go from there. For Ismail, that’s his children’s schooling and college savings. “Education is the top priority. It's the most valuable thing I think any parent can give them,” he explains.
For kids, the value might become clearer as they get older. For example, Ismail didn’t understand why his parents wanted him to go to Islamic school when he was young. “I resented it and I fought my parents about it,” he recounts. “But as I got older, I think I finally am at a point now where I've found the meaning in all of those years of being in Islamic school, all of that money, all of that pain and arguing.”
You might not share the same values as other parents, even within your own family. Ismail and his wife are determined to teach their children Arabic, but that’s not a priority for either of his two brothers, who’ve opted to send their kids to public school. “Both of them have two kids, and neither of them are even considering Islamic school as an option,” Ismail explains. “I've spoken to my brother about it, and so he's like, ‘Dude, you can't afford it.’ He's like, ‘If you're not saving a third of your income, then you can't afford it.’”
If you liked this episode, share it with a friend. And if you are grappling with a financial decision and want to share your budget with us, email uncomfortable@marketplace.org or fill out the form below.
This Is Uncomfortable January 29, 2026 Transcript
Note: Marketplace podcasts are meant to be heard, with emphasis, tone and audio elements a transcript can’t capture. Transcripts are generated using a combination of automated software and human transcribers, and may contain errors. Please check the corresponding audio before quoting.
Aymann Ismail: I won't get another chance to help them learn Arabic for the sake of them being connected to this massive heritage that they're inheriting. So in that context, it has to happen now. And if you're gonna ask me, how important is it that they get that, that connection, I'm gonna tell you it's everything.
Reema Khrais: I’m Reema Khrais and welcome to This is Uncomfortable. Like a lot of kids of immigrants, I grew up with parents who tried really hard to hold onto our culture. Every Sunday morning they drove me and my siblings to Islamic school…and every summer they could afford it they'd send us abroad to be with family, to learn Arabic. While I’m not a parent yet, I do think a lot about what kinds of things I’d want to pass on someday, and what it would actually take to do that, not just emotionally…but financially. Which is what I’m talking about this week with journalist Ayman Ismail.
Aymann is a writer and podcast host at Slate, where he reports on politics, religion and parenting. He also came out with a memoir recently called “Becoming Baba,” which is about how he navigates identity and fatherhood as a Muslim American. Aymann and his wife have two small kids. And recently they’ve decided that it’s really important that they send them to Islamic school, even though it’s going to cost them a lot more than they’d like. Aymann agreed to sit down with me and walk through his family budget – line item by line item – and talk openly about what it costs – emotionally and financially – to hold onto a sense of belonging right now.
Aymann, welcome to the show.
Ismail: Hi, Reema. Wow. What an intro. You must do this for a living or something.
Khrais: I'm excited to talk with you, especially because we come from similar backgrounds. You've wrestled with questions that I'm sure I will someday too, so, um, before we…
Ismail: Inshallah
Khrais: Inshallah. [laugh]
Ismail: We’re about to get mad Muslim!
Khrais: [laugh] we’ll see if we keep that in… uh, so before we get into specific numbers, I’m curious, what is driving your decision to send your kids to Islamic school and, and what kind of like financial conversations has that led to?
Ismail: When I was growing up, the question of whether or not I would go to Islamic school when it came up with my parents, had nothing to do with money. In fact, it made zero money sense, uh, the Islamic school they chose to send us to was the local one. It was in Jersey City. So it was one town over, we were living in Newark, New Jersey, uh, where I live today. And the tuition I think was around $6,000 per student. And they had four kids. So they're talking about four students.
Khrais: Wow. And this is full-time? Like full-time school.
Ismail: Full time.
Khrais: It's not Sunday school. Okay.
Ismail: This is like a K through 12 school. So it's all the way up to the end of high school to college.
Khrais: Mm-hmm.
Ismail: Academically, it's pretty good. But at the same time, like we really got to learn Arabic. And we also really got to understand not really the spiritual side of the religion, but the mechanics. And at the time I was like, this is so dumb. Like, why are we learning to like put one hand over the other? Does God really care if you put your left hand over the right hand? Like, we were learning that side of it.
Khrais: Right.
Ismail: But as I got older, I think I, I finally am like at a point now where I've found the meaning in all of those years of being in Islamic school, all of that money, all of that pain and arguing. And now, uh, you know, because now I have kids, I have two kids, Alhamdulillah, I am starting to feel really insecure in my ability as a parent to transfer that knowledge by myself. I don't think I can teach them to really understand the mechanisms of being a Muslim because it is like a physical practice, uh, just as much as it is a spiritual one. I, I'm not totally confident in my ability to teach them that. I don't even speak enough Arabic myself to pass down. And there was this moment the other day. Um. You know, I have an aunt in Egypt. She and I talk on the phone all the time. I love her dearly. And I was really excited because my kids were in the car. And so I put her on speaker phone and I was like, “they're in the car. You should say hi.” And she said all these really nice things. “I love you…”
Khrais: All in Arabic, I’m imagining?
Ismail: All in Arabic. Right? She doesn't speak English at all. And my kids were just like staring out the window, like they have no idea what's going on. And at that moment I'm like, oh no. It's not just like about religion. It's not even about like language. It's about their tether to their heritage. Are they ever gonna truly feel connected to their huge family in Egypt
Khrais: Right, right.
Ismail: at all if they can't talk to them? And, and at that point it started to feel more like an emergency than anything else.
Khrais: Hmm. That's such a relatable feeling. I mean, being from the, from the perspective of the kid. I, I'm, I don't know if you've have similar experiences where like, growing up I'd be, I'd talk with like my relatives abroad and like try to string together words and…
Ismail: Mm.
Khrais: Stumble through it. So that was a moment when you really thought like, okay, I need to get serious about sending them to Islamic school. Like at that point, was it a thing that you'd been weighing and then it really has flipped over to Yes, I'm actually going to do it.
Ismail: Yeah. It was something we were weighing, you know, my wife and I, we're both Egyptian and so a part of us when we first became parents felt like maybe it was possible that we could teach these kids just enough Arabic to get by.
Khrais: Right.
Ismail: Uh, we're both Americans, we both were born and raised here. We both had parents who were Egyptian, who taught us the basics, and we both went to… She went to Sunday school. I went to a full-time Islamic school. And so we both had these like structures in our life that taught us Arabic. And so we felt like, you know, maybe we could just like get them Arabic baby books. We can like teach them the Arabic letters, get them a puzzle. We could, uh…
Khrais: Arabic YouTube, yeah.
Ismail: Arabic YouTube like songs and like nursery rhymes. There's also like Arabic dubs of like popular Disney movies,
Khrais: Oh, really?
Ismail: my wife recently found out about. So they're watching like 101 Dalmatians in Arabic, uh, the, the Little Mermaid in Arabic.
Khrais: oh, that's amazing. I mean, it's really hard. You really have to commit to it. I have a friend who during the pandemic, realized that she wanted her kids to learn and speak Arabic, and she just stopped speaking English to them. Like the only content that they're exposed to now is Arabic. They don't watch any Disney movies. I don't know if she knows about the dub movies, but she went to this other extreme but it's hard. It's like, I know most of my friends are straddling in between and like trying to figure out what to commit to. But going back to you… just to be clear, how much does Islamic school cost?
Ismail: Uh, Islamic School, depends on the Islamic school. Uh, the ones that we're looking at are between $7,000 and $8,000 a year.
Khrais: Per kid?
Ismail: Per kid.
Khrais: Mmhm. So as you were weighing that decision of whether to send them to Islamic school, what conversations were you having with your wife about money?
Ismail: Yeah, money came up right away for me.
Khrais: Right.
Ismail: Uh, so like a lot of Muslim families, our finances are kind of separate. Like she has her money, I've got my money, uh, I handle all…
Khrais: Or just to take a second, I think most people don't know that, like, yeah. And Islamically, that's how it's usually set up, right?
Ismail: Yeah. She has her bank account. I've got my bank account. Um, yeah, and my responsibility, Islamically and also in our family is, uh, I handle the house payments, I handle the utilities, I handle the groceries, everything to keep us up and functional is, is my domain. You know, it's not her obligation to, but she's willing to also keep her job. She, she works in healthcare. She's a chaplain at a hospital. She works part-time, so she's also not like raking it in, but, uh, she handles what we call the fun budget. So if the family wants to go on a vacation, if we want to go to like this really expensive dinner one night, she'll pick up the tab, that kind of thing.
Khrais: So that's how y'all manage your finances. So then when the conversations were in Islamic school started happening, the assumption was that it would fall on you?
Ismail: Yeah, when I, when I first became a parent, that's when I first started budgeting, and that's when I started to like, look up templates and like, try to find one that I, that I liked.
Khrais: So I wanna pull up your budget and get into it in a second. But real quick, just so I understand sort of the, your background a little bit more. You said that your parents sent you to Islamic school, and I remember reading in your book that you know, financially y'all were kind of strapped, right? It's not that…
Ismail: Struggling..
Khrais: It sounds like it, that wasn't, like you were saying earlier, wasn't a consideration, um, whether or not they could afford it. It was that important; they were gonna make it work. Do you feel like you brought that similar mentality when you were looking at your budget?
Ismail: Uh, not necessarily. I mean, I wanna make my budget work as best as I can. I have so many awful memories of like going at night without dinner or having. Nothing but like bread and cheese because we were that strapped. It was rough. It wasn't enjoyable. Uh, I also remember like getting kind of made fun of in school because I only had like one pair of pants and like people could tell if the stains weren't going away. So yeah, it sucked. And my dad at the time, he was working as a taxi cab driver in New York City. Uh, my mom actually, she ended up taking a job at the school 'cause she needed the tuition discount and also to like, make money to make it happen. So that was the position they were in. There was like, okay, it doesn't make sense for us to do it. We're gonna do it anyways,
Khrais: Mm-hmm. I see.
Ismail: They, they made it work. I don't feel like I'm in that desperate of a position. We could take a look at my finances. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe it doesn't work.
Khrais: Yeah, Let’s do it!
Ismail: Uh, but I think I can make it work.
Khrais: You could share your screen, but if you don't wanna do that, you could just look at it and tell me.
Ismail: I can share the screen.
Khrais: Perfect.
Ismail: This is my beautiful presentation.
Khrais: Oh, nice. It's so organized. Okay. Let me see.
Ismail: It’s color coded!
Khrais: Yeah. What is this that I'm looking at? Is this Excel?
Ismail: This is Excel. It’s not that high tech.
Khrais: Wow. And so are you pretty much on top of it? Like are you checking it often and…
Ismail: Every day. Every day.
Khrais: Oh! Okay, so walk me through it. What are we looking at?
Ismail: So we're looking at last month. I make about 5,000 a month from Slate, which feels a good amount. I have a rental property. We bought a house.
Khrais: Oh nice!
Ismail: And when we had kids, we needed to expand and get a spot with a driveway. And so, Alhamdulillah, that place is paid off. And so we get rental income is passive income.
Khrais: Wow. That's amazing.
Ismail: That's 1500 after, um, you know, I put money aside for like taxes, utilities.
Khrais: Right.
Ismail: Repairs, that kind of thing. So yeah, I got really lucky there. You're gonna see childcare here is at zero.
Khrais: Hmm.
Ismail: Because previously we were paying about 260 bucks a week, which added up to about $900, close to a thousand every month.
Khrais: Okay.
Ismail: Next September, we actually found them a public daycare. Uh, so they're still like four and two years old. They're still really young. But we have this thing in Newark where it's called Early Head Start, where it's like 8-3:00 PM, totally free.
Khrais: Oh wow.
Ismail: Both of our kids got in. So our childcare's gonna stay zero, which is gonna help me save up for, um, their tuition when they do start Islam school. So every month I put away 500 bucks.
Khrais: Okay.
Ismail: It's in a 529 account.
Khrais: Nice.
Ismail: And if I'm not mistaken, you could spend from the 529 account on an elementary or pri… It's just a school fund. It's not necessarily a college fund.
Khrais: Right.
Ismail: So that's there just in case I need it. But every month, uh, for like, for the past year I've been doing that.
Khrais: Yeah. And of course, folks should do their own research on 529s… We’re not giving financial advice here. Okay so you told me Islamic school is going to cost $7000 per kid each year… How’s that going to fit into your budget?
Ismail: So let me pull up my calculator. So 7,000 times two is 1400, divided by 12. It's about 1200 a month. So that's what I’m gonna need to make room for. And I'm looking at this and I'm like, I don't know how, but it's gonna have to happen. Uh, so what I'm gonna have to do is I'm gonna have to cut down spending. That's really where it's gonna come down to. So this is the little section right here, what we're looking at, where it says your groceries, transportation, eating out, and extras. This is gonna need to make room.
Khrais: So you spend about $800 on groceries a month?
Ismail: Yeah, so it's just gonna have to be, I think, a matter of cutting that maybe like by a third…
Khrais: I mean, that's still pretty tight, I think, for a family of four, and then you spend about $350 eating out a month it looks like?
Ismail: yeah, and about $550 on like random shopping or if I want like, a new thing or if I want like a, like a new Apple watch, for example, that'll come outta that budget. Transportation will take the, the train a lot and I fill up the gas for our car.
Khrais: And that's about 200 a month.
Ismail: And that’s pretty much it.
Khrais: Yeah. When you're looking at these numbers and thinking about that, how are you feeling?
Ismail: Uh, it, it feels possible 'cause the other thing we didn't look at is that I have a whole bunch of money saved up. So I have 500 bucks every month that I put away into a high-yielding savings account.
Khrais: Nice.
Ismail: Uh, $500 a month I put into my wife's savings account, which is a separate account. So it very realistically, that's a thousand bucks right there I could spend, so in that case, if I just save nothing but continue to contribute to my kids' college fund, or I can reduce that number and, you know, maybe split it. So I think it's not out of the realm of possibility; I just think it's probably irresponsible, you know?
Khrais: I don't know if it's irresponsible…
Ismail: It probably makes more sense to just put your kid in public school and save that money.
Khrais: Well, yeah. Are you still considering that?
Ismail: No, I'm not, I don't want to have kids who can't speak Arabic or read Arabic. Um, I, I think to me, this is the only chance I get to do this. Right. When they're really, really young. I won't get another chance, like after high school to help guide them and like, help them learn Arabic for the sake of them being connected to this massive heritage that they're inheriting. This is the one shot, this is the only shot that I get.
Khrais: Hmm.
Ismail: So in that context, it has to happen now. And if you're gonna ask me, how important is it that they get that, that connection? I'm gonna tell you it's everything.
Khrais: Mm-hmm.
Ismail: Uh, it's not just their lives and the balance, it's their kids' lives. It's, and, and like the idea that I'm gonna be like the weakest link in this generations long connection to Islam and, you know, to family in Egypt, like the, the coolest place somebody could be from. I mean, just saying. Like that to me, I feel like I gotta, I gotta do everything.
Khrais: Hmm. That's a lot of weight that you're putting on yourself. Yeah. So what kinds of conversations are you having with folks in your life who are also new parents and who are also weighing these kinds of things?
Ismail: So I have two brothers. Both of them have two kids. Uh, neither of them are even considering Islamic school as an option. Like, for them it's not even a priority. So like my brother for example, he makes a lot more money than me. He's one of those guys who like all he wants to do is make money to pass down money to his kids, so that way his kids don't have to experience, uh, what we experience as kids with like being strapped all the time. Like, if he was having the conversation with you right now, he would talk about the, our parents' choice to put us in his Islam at school is the dumbest thing possible. They just couldn't afford it. How could they even consider it, if you don't have the money for it?
Khrais: That’s interesting.
Ismail: Yeah. So he's, he's put his kids in public school. Uh, my other brother is really similar, doesn't even think about, uh, raising his kids, Arab or Muslim. In fact, he gave, he gave his kids like non-Arab sounding names. It's not even a priority for them.
Khrais: Right.
Ismail: You know? So, I've spoken to my brother about it. And so he's like, dude, you can't afford it. he's like, if you're not saving a third of your income, then you can't, you can't afford it. So I'm, I'm more that kind of person where it's like I'll just, I'll do what I feel is right and the money will make sense, which is probably not the best attitude, but I've always found that it works out.
Khrais: Right. And it just shows, I mean, that everyone has different priorities and it shows up differently in their budgets, but this is obviously very important to you, and so you're going to make it work.
Ismail: Yeah.
Khrais: Are there any downsides that you've been weighing, um, when thinking about putting them in Islamic school?
Ismail: Yeah. I mean, there's the downside that they'll feel about it, like I did.
Khrais: Right, because you, you kind of resented it when you were younger, right?
Ismail: I resented it and I fought my parents about it. And I didn't understand why we needed to have our own little community when I would like see kids outside who were my age, who I didn't know because they weren't part of our insular Islamic community. 'cause I think the, the other thing that we haven't talked about here is that the, the Islamic school is much more than just a school. It's like a whole community. And so everything from like basketball leagues to karate and, you know, camping, they're all like Islamic versions of it. Like I was an Islamic boy Scout.
Khrais: Oh, really? I didn't know that was a thing!
Ismail: yeah, It's like a developed society, you know what I mean?
Khrais: Yeah. Yeah. It's a little ecosystem.
Ismail: yeah.
Khrais: One of my good friends from college, she has three children, also Muslim and Arab background, and feels very similarly to you and couldn't, she couldn't find any good Islamic schools in her area, and so you know what she decided to do? She decided to just make an Islamic school herself, and so she's like building one.
Ismail: What?!
Khrais: I know. It's wild. She's building one from the ground up.
Ismail: She can do that?
Khrais: I mean, she's doing it. I mean, she's not doing it by herself. She's got like a group of folks now and I mean, she's a doctor, like she's got a full-time job and she's just making it work. Um, it's pretty remarkable because she wants to see these kinds of programs and these kinds of opportunities for her kids and for other Muslim kids in the area.
Ismail: Maybe I'll move to Portland. That sounds amazing.
Khrais: Well, it's in Boston. I mean, that's not too far.
Ismail: Yeah, no, Boston's right up the road. I'll put my kids on Amtrak everyday.
Khrais: Right, right. Um, and I'm curious how your position as a reporter has influenced your decision around this. I know that you recently covered Zohran Mamdani's mayoral campaign in New York and some of the Islamophobia that's been stirring up. How does all of that contextualize your decision about wanting to send your kids to Islamic school?
Ismail: Oh, I mean, it's, it's everything. I mean, if, if you'll let me out, let me just tell you about what happened to me recently.
Khrais: Yeah.
Ismail: So I launched this book, it's a personal book. And then, the book has been out for one day. I get invited to do a book talk in Boston, and I get a, I get an email from the organizer saying, “Oh, actually the, the situation has escalated a little bit. It seems like there's gonna be a protest outside. We just wanna make sure that you're still comfortable showing up.”
Khrais: Okay.
Ismail: And it was like a protest? A protest for what? This is a book about parenthood. This is a book about childhood. And it turned out that there was this pro-Israel Zionist group who had been fighting with that local bookstore for a long time because they feel like their bookstore is too sympathetic to, uh, Palestinian authors. I'm not Palestinian, I'm just Arab and Muslim.
Khrais: Right.
Ismail: Uh, but still, like, that was enough I think, for people to assign me with a responsibility of something, uh, that I didn't ask for. Uh, and at the same time, it, it's becoming painfully aware that this is gonna be the same ecosystem that my kids are gonna be growing up in.
Khrais: Yeah.
Ismail: And one of the things that I think makes my book really interesting is that I talk about what it was like to be in an Islamic school situation, and then right after 9/11 when the school shuts down, because of all these bomb threats, and my parents didn't really feel safe sending our kids to Islamic school anymore.
Khrais: Wait, sorry, just to slow that down, after 9/11, what happened exactly?
Ismail: So we're in New Jersey, like 10, 15 minutes outta New York City. And so after 9/11 or the day of 9/11, the school got shut down. They let everybody out early because a mob had formed outside.
Khrais: Oh, outside of your Islamic school?
Ismail: Outside of the Islamic school. And so after a day or two, the schools didn't open up back up. There was a bunch of bomb threats being called in because they were still, you know, just like this angry community wanted them out.
Khrais: I see.
Ismail: So my mom didn’t want me to miss school. So she withdrew me out of the Islamic school and put me in the local public school. And this is something that I've been wanting, and this is something I've been like begging her to do.
Khrais: Oh my gosh.
Ismail: Because I didn’t want to be in the Islamic school anymore, but at this point, it all came to a head. And so I, I write about what it was like to be thrust into this environment where I'm, you know, I'm, I'm so worried about getting bullied, but instead what happens is I'm surrounded with kids who have infinite curiosity, they're like, who are you? Like, you know, they say dumb stuff sometimes, like, “oh, do you live in a pyramid?” And I like to mess with them. So I'm like, yeah, you know the pyramid, I’m part of the market.
Khrais: Yeah actually!
Ismail: Yeah, yeah. You know, the one. And they, they're like, wow. Like they have no idea.
Khrais: Yeah.
Ismail: Uh, but anyways, it, it thrusts me into this position where I needed to be sure of who I was and I needed to be a spokesperson for all of Islam and I needed to have the answers, and I wouldn't even know where to begin, if not for that Islamic school background.
And I worry that that'll be the same case for our, the next generation. And my kids in particular. They have Arab names. Both of their parents are Egyptian, they look Arab. They look just like those kids that are starving in Gaza. Like it's awful. Uh, but there's a kinship there and that's family to us. And so, yeah, it's, it's, I kind of have to get them ready for that.
It feels like I need to do everything I can to create confident kids who are sure of themselves, who know what it's like to be loved, who know what it's like not to ever be questioned, uh, based on who they are, their ethnicity or who their dad is, or you know, what direction they pray in. I'm gonna do everything I can to give them the kind of backbone where they never forget who they are and what they're worth.
Khrais: That's so beautifully said. That’s perfect.
Okay, we're gonna take a quick break and then when we come back I want to ask you some Uncomfortable Money Questions.
Ismail: Uh oh.
Khrais: By the way, Does Aymann’s choice resonate with you at all? Are you grappling with your kind of financial decision and want to share your budget with us? You can always call our hotline and leave a message at 347-RING-TIU. That’s 347-746-4848.
[BREAK]
Khrais: Welcome back to This Is Uncomfortable. I’m Reema Khrais. Before we jump back into things, I just wanted to remind you to check out our new Instagram and Tiktok accounts! You can follow us at @ThisIsUncomfortablePod.
Alright, back to my conversation with journalist and author Aymann Ismail….
Aymann, it is now time for our new segment… Uncomfortable Money Questions… are you ready?
Ismail: I hope so. I don't know.
Khrais: Alright. What's a parenting expense that you didn't expect? Something surprising that nobody warned you about.
Ismail: I'm gonna say fruits. Like I love fruits. I'm, I'm always buying fruits. Uh, but kids will inhale them like they're nothing. And so if you buy like a box of strawberries, for example, they're what, like 4.99? they're gone in a minute. God forbid I get blackberries and they're like eight bucks, gone before we even get home. And so, uh, I, I want my kids to have all the fruits so they can, they can enjoy. And I think that's part of the reason why grocery bill is so high, uh, is 'cause we pay for a lot of fruits. And I, I promise you, it's like they vanish. So I need to always have fruits.
Khrais: I mean better than chips and cookies. Right.
Ismail: That's the thing. Yeah. We don't, we don't buy any of that.
Khrais: Okay, okay.
Ismail: I'm like really careful with that. I don't give my kids like french fries and stuff. They've never tasted fast food. They never will.
Khrais: Oh, they never will.
Ismail: Mmm.
Khrais: Uh, how much did the diaper budget go down once your oldest got potty trained?
Ismail: Oh, oh dude. Do you know how much diapers costs?
Khrais: No. I mean, I know it, it costs a lot…
Ismail: It’s like a dollar a diaper.
Khrais: Yeah. That's wild.
Ismail: It’s like a dollar a diaper.
Khrais: And then if you're changing their diapers, like what?
Ismail: Like eight to 10 times a day. And, uh, yeah, yeah, no, it adds up. And especially with two kids, uh, we did 2 under 2, and the thinking was we wanna like get it all out together. We don't wanna like, finish diapers and go back to diapers. I kind of wish we did that now because of how expensive it was to just have these massive boxes of diapers all the time.
Khrais: So how much money do you think you spent?
Ismail: Total on diapers? At least $15,000.
Khrais: What?!
Ismail: At least. I guarantee. That's probably more.
Khrais: Whoa.
Ismail: Probably more over like, because think about it, they're in diapers for about two years, right? More. So two and a half, years. Two kids, probably gonna spend something like $400 a month.
Khrais: Yeah. Easy. That's insane. Alright, so what is the most expensive thing you've bought for your kids?
Ismail: Oh God, I knew this was coming. The most expensive thing that I bought for them was like, those love every play kits. So for people who don't, aren't familiar, uh. Like Montessori toys are all the rage right now. And so they have like toys that are like, here's like a gardening thing, and you can, like, it helps with like motor functions and here's this game that's like flashcards and it helps with memory and like that kind of approach. And so, yeah, I splurged. My wife was not happy when I showed her how much it cost. It's like a hundred dollars a box. And I had like, bought like seven or eight of those boxes.
Khrais: Oh wow! But did they enjoy them?
Ismail: Oh dude. I, I feel like they're geniuses and every time anybody's like, wow, they're so smart. I'm like, mm-hmm.
Khrais: Those boxes though.
Ismail: Love Every.
Khrais: Worth every dollar.
Ismail: Seriously.
Khrais: If your kids get invited to a birthday party, how much are you spending on the birthday gift for this… For this random kid?
Ismail: Oh dude. Uh, five bucks.
Khrais: We're going to the dollar store. Picking up a couple things.
Ismail: We’re going to the dollar store, we're getting 'em a pack of stickers. Uh, we're gonna get 'em a balloon and maybe like a little bit of like healthy gummies or like a juice box. And I'm telling you, that's enough. These kids don't need these big toys.
Khrais: Yeah yeah. What's a kid related expense that you and your wife don't totally agree on?
Ismail: Uh, I'm gonna say toys. My wife doesn't want any toys for them at all. She's like, they can play with anything. Uh, and I'm like, no, I want to get them, like toys that are helpful for their development. So like I buy them Legos, uh, I buy them like those little like notepad things that they can like draw on. And you know, my wife likes to play with them too, but she's just always like, you don't need it. And I also buy them a lot of like books. She's like, there's a library down the block just to use the library. And I'm like, yeah, well it's, it's sort of nice to just have that consistency. They like reading a lot of the same books.
Khrais: What's their favorite book?
Ismail: Uh, right now it's ”Halal Hotdogs” cause the main character is, uh, name is Musa and my son's name is Musa.
Khrais: Aw, that's sweet.
Ismail: And every time we go out to like New York together as a family, they're always like, “halal hotdog!”
Khrais: So you've got representation even in your books. That's amazing.
Ismail: Yeah.
Khrais: What's a parenting expense you'll always say yes to no matter how tight things get?
Ismail: Education. Uh, it's gotta be education. So like, uh, as you can see, my budget, like I probably shouldn't be doing 500 bucks for their college funds. Uh, $250 each. It's just probably too much at this stage, considering how tight everything is. Um, no. Education is the top priority. It's the most valuable thing I think any parent can give them. And yeah, I, I had college debt 'cause my parents didn't like have any money for my education, and I don't wanna do that. I, I want to help as much as I can.
Khrais: Okay, I’ve got one last question. And I don’t know, there was a part of me that’s like, should we ask this? Should we not? But here it is: Do you spend more on your son or your daughter?
Ismail: Ooh, that's a good question.
Khrais: Yeah?
Ismail: Yeah, there's an obvious answer.
Khrais: Okay. What is it?
Ismail: My son by a lot, and I'll tell you why.
Khrais: Yeah?
Ismail: It's just by the nature of being the younger sibling, all of what you get is a hand-me-down.
Khrais: Right. That's very true.
Ismail: She has like nothing that belongs to her, which sucks. She gets like a couple books and like a couple toys. I got her, like those big jumbo Legos, but otherwise they share a room. They share everything, but it just so happens that when it's older, and so when he's ready for the next thing, he gets it. And then when she's ready for it, she, she gets the hand-me-down.
Khrais: Yeah. I mean that's the cost of being the youngest, right? As you know very well.
Ismail: I'm the youngest of four. Like I didn't own anything until I got a job!
Khrais: Aymann, thank you so much for coming on the show. This was really fun.
Ismail: Thank you for having me. I, I hope we get to stay friends. This was…
Khrais: Yes. Let's do it.
Ismail: Felt like a family reunion for some reason.
Khrais: You can check out Aymann Ismail’s reporting over at Slate.com, and his new memoir, which is called “Becoming Baba: Fatherhood, Faith, and Finding Meaning in America.”
One last disclaimer: we’re not here to give specific financial advice. I know Aymann shared his own money strategy, and we really appreciate his transparency, but what works for him might not be right for you, so always do your own research.
If you have any thoughts about today’s conversation, or anything else you’ve heard on the show, you can always reach out to us.
Also - we’re working on an upcoming episode around debt - and would love to hear from you all! How much debt do you have right now, and do the people in your life know about it? If they don’t, let me know why.
You can call our hotline and leave a message at 347-RING-TIU. That’s 347-746-4848. Or you can email us at uncomfortable@marketplace.org.
And if you’re not already following our new social media accounts, check us out at @ThisIsUncomfortablePod on Instagram and Tiktok.
This episode was lead-produced by our senior producer, Zoë Saunders. And I’m your host, Reema Khrais. Additional production support from I-Yun Chen. Alice Wilder is our producer.
Audio engineering by Drew Jostad. Bridget Bodnar is Marketplace’s Director of Podcasts. Marketplace’s Chief Content Officer is Joanne Griffith. Neal Scarbrough is Vice President and general manager of Marketplace. And our theme music is by Wonderly.
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