“The Diplomat” creator wants to demystify the work of diplomacy

Kai Ryssdal and Sean McHenry Oct 29, 2024
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Debora Cahn, speaking in New York in October, 2024. Bonnie Biess/Getty Images for Netflix

“The Diplomat” creator wants to demystify the work of diplomacy

Kai Ryssdal and Sean McHenry Oct 29, 2024
Heard on:
Debora Cahn, speaking in New York in October, 2024. Bonnie Biess/Getty Images for Netflix
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Debora Cahn came up with the idea for “The Diplomat” after interviewing an ambassador. At the time, she was working on “Homeland,” where the production team would spend time interviewing experts from various fields to assist in the creation of the show.

“She came in to talk about the work that she had done in Pakistan,” said Cahn. “And two minutes into the conversation, I wrote, ‘she is a series.'”

That series became Netflix’s “The Diplomat,” starring Keri Russell as Kate Wyler, the newly-appointed U.S. ambassador to the United Kingdom who is tapped from the ranks of career diplomats in order to deal with an international crisis. The show premiered on the streaming service in April, 2023, with a second season set to premiere Thursday — and a third season already greenlit.

“Marketplace” host Kai Ryssdal spoke to Cahn about the show’s creation, its workplace culture, and about the reactions from the real-life State Department. The following is a transcript of their conversation.

Kai Ryssdal: You have been in television for a while. “The West Wing,” “Homeland,” a bunch of stuff, but this is your first gig as the boss. And I want to know what it’s like to be the boss on a high profile show.

Debora Cahn: So a lot of people create their first show when they’re a little bit earlier in their career. I waited a long time, partially because I used to be based in LA, and then I moved to New York, and at that time, the idea of working long distance, if you weren’t in LA, couldn’t be in the business. So, so I sort of put my show runner ambitions aside for about a decade, but watched really carefully what these amazing people that I was working with were doing, and knew going into it, all of the pitfalls and how to kind of avoid the mistakes, and then made every single mistake. I was so convinced that I had taught myself how to avoid them.

Ryssdal: The buck very much stops with you, right? I mean, you get to decide all the decisions. 

Cahn: It does. Yeah, it’s fun. I have to say it’s a good job. I enjoy it. 

Ryssdal: Not terrifying?

Cahn: It is terrifying. But there’s a certain point at which I remember that I actually know more about this show than most people do. I always actually panic going into interviews, because I’m like, what if I don’t have anything to say about the show? And then I realized I am, in fact, the world’s expert on “The Diplomat” television program. So, you know, eventually it works out.

Ryssdal: We were talking about this interview and, and, you know, how we could make it a “Marketplace” interview, right? We always try to find a “Marketplace” angle.

Cahn: You know, I was wondering that myself. 

Ryssdal: Well, so here’s what we came up with, I’m glad you asked. We’ve decided that this is actually a workplace drama, and we’re a show about, among many things, the workplace. So as you sat down to sort of — well actually, you probably didn’t sit down and come up with this thing out of whole cloth. What was the process by which you came to the nut graph, the idea for this show? 

Cahn: There were a bunch of contributing features. When I left the “West Wing,” I was like, well, I want to do this, but with the whole world. And then when I was working on “Homeland,” this ambassador came in to speak to us. We interviewed a lot of experts from a lot of different fields, and she came in to talk about the work that she had done in Pakistan. And two minutes into the conversation, I wrote — I still have it in my notepad — I wrote, ‘She is a series.’ The stories that she told, as I talked to more people in that field, were not all that unusual. And I thought, how the **** is it that nobody knows about what these people do?

(L-R) Rufus Sewell, Ali Ahn, Debora Cahn, David Gyasi, Keri Russell and Ato Essandoh
(L-R) Rufus Sewell, Ali Ahn, Debora Cahn, David Gyasi, Keri Russell and Ato Essandoh. (Dominik Bindl/Getty Images)

Ryssdal: Can we talk about Keri Russell for a minute? 

Cahn: Oh, yeah. 

Ryssdal: So look, I said this before we started rolling tape, I’m a huge fan of the show. I really enjoy it. Keri’s great and Rufus Sewell and David Gyasi and the whole cast, and I want to get to the chemistry of it in a second. But did you write this with Keri in mind?

Cahn: No.

Ryssdal: Oh interesting. 

Cahn: I did not. And then someone suggested Keri when we were beginning to talk about casting, and I said, she’s an amazing actress. I love her work, but she is so powerful and statuesque. She is Elizabeth on the Americans, so in control. I’m writing a sort of an itchy, twitchy, neurotic [person], and I just didn’t see it. And the executive that I was working with said, just have a conversation. See how it goes. We get on Zoom. Within 30 seconds. I was like, oh my god, she is Kate. She’s so down to earth and relaxed in her own body and laughing at herself in every second and relatable. And I was like, oh god, she’s Kate.

Ryssdal: And then as you got to casting the rest of of this team, one of the reasons this show works for me, anyway, and I think probably for a lot of people, and probably for a lot of shows, actually, is that the chemistry between the the actors and the characters is so good. How do you do that? Is it just serendipitous casting? Should I be interviewing the casting director instead of you?

Cahn:  Probably. [Her name is] Julie Schubert, unbelievable casting director. You know, some of it is just luck. Carrie and Rufus liked each other right off. And the thing that we were casting for was team players. Honestly, I’m very much cognizant of the fact that whatever happens on the show, it should be a pleasant place to work for everybody. And certain … OK, so if we’re talking about workplaces, certain ecosystems evolve that are built around a single CEO or creator or lead, where there’s a lot of dysfunction that revolves around supporting that one person’s process. And I think the work that you get out of a group is a lot better if everybody realizes that everybody there is a human being with creativity to contribute, and a family at home, and that we’re lucky to do this. That energy, I think, creates a certain lightness and playfulness and ease in the interaction of the whole cast.

Ryssdal: I was in the Navy. I was in flight school, actually, when “Top Gun” came out, and of course, the whole vibe when “Top Gun” comes out was, ‘Oh, naval aviation, it’s the coolest thing ever.’ I was in the Foreign Service, as you may or may not be aware, many years ago.

Cahn: I didn’t know that. What did you do?

Ryssdal: I was overseas and at the embassies in Ottawa and Beijing. Ottawa, lovely place, not very far. Beijing, obviously, quite far. 

Cahn: And what was your role? 

Ryssdal: Oh, I was stamping visas and doing mundane stuff. I was a brand new junior officer. Nothing exciting.

Cahn: Oh, that’s exciting. 

Ryssdal: Well, the life was cool. What has the reaction been from the State Department, for you?

Cahn: They have been really happy. They were, I think, terrified when they first heard about us as they should be, and we wanted to be as loyal as we could to the substance of the work that they do and the intention behind it. Somebody recently put it as not realistic, but authentic, and I think that’s the right way to describe the goal. And, you know, we’ve had people come up to us and say, ‘Wow, my family now, like my parents, understand what I do now,’ and that’s what we want.

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