117
Economy gives some dads a bad rap
Shadows of mother with children.
To view this content, Javascript must be enabled and Adobe Flash Player must be installed.
TEXT OF STORY
Stacey Vanek-Smith: It seems like the recession and the unemployment rate are hitting every aspect of life these days. Divorce is no exception. As more parents feel a loss of income, many are asking family courts to adjust child support payments. The bad economy is also pushing some parents into payment delinquency, contributing to the problem of deadbeat dads.
From Boston, Monica Brady-Myerov reports.
Monica Brady-Myerov: When someone loses a job, the bills don't stop coming. Mortgage, car payments, health insurance and for some, child support. But Ned Holstein, president of Fathers and Families, a group that presents dads, says there's a big difference.
Ned Holstein: Everybody is struggling. But someone who has a child support order is the only person who's going to be put in jail, because they can't pay their debts.
That's why more parents who've lost their jobs are asking the courts to lower their child support payments. That's what's happening to Jim Feeney. He's a divorced father of four who lives on Cape Cod. Before he lost his job in January, he made about $85,000 a year. He's required to may $3,200 a month in child support and alimony. When he was laid off, he immediately asked the court if he could pay less.
Jim Feeney: First, I filed for unemployment, I filed for welfare, food stamps, because I had no income. I had no savings.
Feeney spoke about his case at a restaurant after his hearing, which he had to wait two and a half months for. The judge denied his request to lower his payments and after six months after not meeting them, Feeney was put in jail. After two days behind bars, he paid a $5,000 fine and was released. But his stint in jail didn't lower his child support obligations and the fines he's racking up because he's not paying.
Feeney: There's penalties to the state, there's penalties that go to my ex-wife, there's interest to the state, there's interest that goes to my ex-wife.
Feeney's former wife refused to comment for this story. But another ex-wife of another man who just lost his job does have something to say. She's Julie Baker, she's the primary care giver to two children, ages five and nine. Her ex was recently laid off.
Julie Baker: The first thing he said was, "I'll try to keep up the child support."
\
Baker said her former husband has been a supportive dad who's always paid on time. But if the tables were turned:
Baker: If I lost my job, I can't say to the kids, "You know what? You can't have lunch today. You know what? I'm sorry that your shoes are too small."
And more out-of-work parents want to change their child support agreements. But just asking the court to lower your payments, because you lost your job, isn't always enough.
Divorce attorney B.J. Krintzman says the courts are slow moving.
B.J. Krintzman: They're not going to get very far if they go in that week and say, "I lost my job, so I can no longer pay." Usually there has to be some kind of period of time that's gone by, so the obligor has to show attempts to get a job.
Some judges are sympathetic and lower payments right away, because they know it's unlikely someone will get a new job quickly. But typically it takes six months for a judge to make a decision.
Holstein: And during those couple of months, you can be going broke in a hurry.
Ned Holstein of Fathers and Families.
Holstein: Then when you get the hearing, typically, the family court judges will not give you relief at the first hearing. They say, "Well, how do we know this is going to be long standing? You might get a job next week. Also, you've got some assets, you can pay it out of your assets. And so, I'll see you again in three more months."
But it's putting fathers who mean well and love their kids in jail, because they can't pay.
Krintzman: And this is not daddy jail; this is real jail.
But divorce attorney B.J. Krintzman says what ends up happening is dads borrow money from family and friends.
Krintzman: Usually it is very rare that someone stays in jail for 30 days. So they do find ways to find the money and pay up the back child support and get themselves out of jail.
And when they do get out of jail, they'll owe even more, because child support obligations don't stop while someone is behind bars.
In Boston, I'm Monica Brady-Myerov for Marketplace Money.
Pages
That's odd, previously you said you didn't have "much left over" and previously you were complaining that you didn't get money from your ex now your singing the typical woman song of "I don't need no man" which is it? You makin just enough to keep a roof over your head and food on the table? Or are you so well off that If you got laid off youve saved several months worth of mortgage, food, clothes etc, that you'll be needing no unployment benefits or welfare to get by? You need your ex's money? Or you dont? I'm not getting which point your tryin to prove!
My point IS that no matter what happens, I, being a MOTHER( or should I say I being a CP), do not have the luxury of being unprepared...for the unexpected( or as you so kindly put it..MY FALL FROM GRACE). I WOULD and WILL do whatever is necessary to support my child. NO EXCUSES... This INCLUDES working whatever crappy job I could get( McDonalds, JobLot, Walmart..they are hiring..well at least the one's in my area are)..so that I can SUPPORT my child(unlike my EX). It is a duty of all parents. It might not be WHAT you WANT or WHAT you signed up for...BUT its WHAT YOU GOT! So just DO IT!
Now I KNOW there are CP's out there sitting on their bottom sides waiting for the GRAVY TRAIN SUPPORT CHECKS. I also know that there are NCP's busting their stones to make huge support payments! I'm not talking... so much about those people. I'm talking about the CP's that are ACTUALLY OUT THERE bringing home the bacon...and the NCP's who don't, won't and think its someone else's responsibility to take care of their children and who use excuse after excuse( my EX's new favorite IS the economy..course its more like 3 years old) why they cannot contribute even a meager amount to their children( BUT they can drive fancy HOOPTIE'S and hit all the local WATERING HOLES)! Its unbelievable! Of course I don't happen to know ANY single parents getting RICH off of child support( Everyone I know is actually busting their hump to take care of their own) So you can say what you like...but at the end of the day I say SAVE the excuses.....EVERYBODY has them...SOME just DON'T use them.
On a more personal note, NUNYA, I thank the Heavens above EVERDAY for the Man that I NOW have in my life! An incredible human being AND a responsible FATHER( that means he supports his children in ALL WAYS...emotionally AND financially without complaint) Do I NEED a man? NOPE....but this one I want!
Well well well, after your little song and dance insinuating how you are a poor put upon struggling single mother who has a "good" job but "not much left over" we find out you have the benefit of a second income! So it's NOT YOU who's Mrs. Responsible it's you with a WHOLE BUNCH OF HELP! NOw tell me please, just what kind of house do you think your little McDonald's job would buy? Not a good one! Now let's pretend your ex DID get a job at McDonald's and moved for a downward mod because he's just not makin the same money...to which you would reply "your honor he's divested himself of the ability to earn his previous amount of income. The full amount should be garnished" So now he HAS to get a second job to support the kid YOU HAVE which means he has to work one job during the time he's not working the OTHER job! JUST HOW YOU CP's want it! Get rid of the man altogether, and keep his wallet! You females leave little incentive for a man not to just disappear and pretend you never were! and please spare everyone your praises of your current husband!!! Everyone knows where women are concerned today's "gift from above" is tomorrow's "dead beat dad"!!! FYI, I DONT HAVE A SUPPORT OBLIGATION! I wouldn't touch a woman with a ten foot pole much less a body part!!!!
Thank you, Thank you...AND Thank you....and I speak for all women out there...YOU are doing us a huge favor( by NOT touching us with a even 10 ft pole)! Secondly, you got it all WRONG ..you assumed...again. What kind of house can one sustain with a job at McDonald's? Well, a mulitfamily home actually. One I own all by myself. One that I pay for and live in with my child. I do it all WITHOUT a husband and hmmm lets see...about 2 years since I have seen a support check. SO, IF and WHEN the deadbeat actually decides to get a J.O.B....something would definately be better than nothing(McDonald's is looking really good right now). But I have to tell you, NUNYA, I have to say THANK YOU to you once again. You see for years I have just let the NCP get away with doing absolutely nothing. I was tired of going to court and quite frankly didn't want to be bothered. BUT after participating in this little exchange of posts you have lit a fire under me and TODAY I went to the Courthouse and finally filed that Modification AND that Contempt! Thank you...your the best! ;)
Additionally, you might want to drop the argument of "failure not being an option" for custodial parents, because the whole reason child support exists, is due to the failure of mothers supporting their children...the state grew weary of financing YOUR procreative choices!
I know that the economy is tough. This I understand. I, being a custodial parent, am fortunate to have a good, full time job that allows me to keep a roof over our heads and food in the fridge, but not much left over. Every week, whether I get a child support payment or NOT, I still have to pay child care costs, lunch money, purchase new clothing or shoes( which we all know kids grow out of them almost as quickly as you buy them) My EX doesn't work, well not on the books he doesn't. In fact 2 years ago he got laid off from a great job( of course I think it was a voluntary thing...because they were going to fire him). For 2 years he collected $650 a week from Unemployment( in Rhode Island) and at the same time was working under the table full time. Clearly raking in the dough and making more than me( while living for free with his mother). His benefits just ended this past fall. Which is when his payments ended. Now keep in mind he never paid faithfully every week and DOR in Mass couldn't attach his benefits. He actually asked me to file a joint motion with him acknowleding his inability to pay support. ( the support order is half what he should have been paying..something I agreed to in our divorce..I wanted him to be able to have money to move on with his life ) Of course I told him NO WAY. In all that time he never ONCE made an attempt to get a job( above the table), never put any money away in a savings account, basically he did nothing but have a really good time. So honestly I have NO SYMPATHY for non-custodial parents who use the ECONOMY as a way to justify not paying support. If I was in his shoes I would work whatever jobs I could possibly find in order to support my child. Fast food, retail or day labour...If I had to I would, BUT in my case...my EX is too good to work those types of jobs and the Courts really DON"T want to hear from a Mother with a decent full time job. Thats the attitude I get everytime I have sought Child support enforcement. This time when we get into COURT the tally should be about $5000 ( a felony in MA) maybe then something will be done. Perhaps something OTHER than excuses. Our children still have to eat...bad economy or not!
Coreycat, you need to be reminded of a few things.
1) A man can go to jail for not paying child support. It's the only time in America when anyone can go to jail for being in debt.
2) if you lose your job, you have lots of options. You can get a SNAP card, you can get rent assistance, you can go to the Salvation Army and get clothes. But you will never, ever go to jail for not being able to pay your bills.
3)If a man loses his job and can't pay child support, he has to have enough money to hire a lawyer to ask for a child support mod - which he may very well not get. It costs around $5000 to seek a reduction in child support.
4) If a father doesn't pay child support, all it takes is one phone call from the mom to get his driver's license suspended, his tax return intercepted, his license to practice his vocation (like an electrician) revoked, and to have him threatened with jail time
5)There are no relief agencies for a man behind on child support.
6) Statistically speaking, non-custodial MOMS are more likely to default on child support than non-custodial dads.
7) Child support does not stop unless the court is petitioned. If I get in a car wreck on the way home and am in a coma for a year, when I wake up I'll owe for a year of back support. How can I ask for child support to be suspended when I'm in a coma (or in jail or in Afghanistan)?
8) Legally, no-one can dismiss child support arrears. So in the scenario above, even if the court recognizes that I had no way of paying, the court cannot dismiss the charges
9) child support is not based on how much it costs to support a child. Support is based on income. I found it incredible that the man in the story was paying over $35,000 a year in child support. Of course the mom in the story chose not to comment. As long as child support is based on income, not on a mathematical model of how much it costs to raise a child, divorcing parents (especially mothers) will see it as a cash cow to support their lifestyle.
9) There is no accountability for child support. The money I send my ex currently goes directly into her retirement account, while at the same time I get phone calls from my son asking if I can bring him lunch as his mom is not paying his school lunch account. I also get calls from him at her house, saying there's no food there to eat. Currently they have no cable and no internet - and yet I'm giving her $900 a month in support, and provide all medical insurance. I'm 53 with no retirement or savings, and have gone in debt $15,000 simply to keep up with child support despite having a good paying full time job.
10) It's a conflict of interest that the States receive money from the Feds for every dollar of child support collected. This gives the State incentive to make awards as high as possible and to reduce it as few times as possible.
11) 90% of fathers who do not pay child support live below the poverty line.
The only solution to all the problems with the child support racket/industry is to make shared parenting the presumption. Take away the incentive to divorce and I suspect that the divorce rate will plummet. Make sure that (except in obviously bad circumstances like abuse, addiction, etc) both parents have equal access to their children and everybody except the divorced moms win. Kids of divorce do much, much better when they have frequent access to their father.
whoa...yeah, I am jealous because I want the no member fee/almost free YMCA, the walk in reduced/almost free health care, the free college tuition with child care money, the free breakfast & lunch for kids, the food stamps, the reduced gas & electric for the income level, etc.... seems like some doublespeak here. I'm not going to say a dad(or mother if reversed) shouldn't pay some child support. But I hear this particular woman having food and clothing with "no support from the dad." She seems to be inferring that her life should be elevated to a higher standard from child support payments. In the real world where I live, with grown children, I am having trouble making ends meet due to a lay off. Too bad for me that I can't demand someone else pay my bills or make my life more luxurious...I work with several women who will only work part time because they get all kinds of freebies for being single with kids. I can't get them even though I am struggling. And they won't work more because they will lose the freebies. And, yes, there is child support which they don't have to claim or hide(not going to say how so other people get the idea). I grew up in a divorced home with a non-paying father. can't say it was easy but we had food. we didn't have new clothes very often, and definitely not toys and gadgets. We also didn't get carted from event to event the way kids do today. Every day an activity...Worst thing about my childhood was the bitterness of my parents. Now people can't be denied material things or activitiese or they feel underprivileged. yeah, I am jealous because I want the no member fee/almost free YMCA, the walk in reduced/almost free health care, the free college tuition with child care money, the free breakfast & lunch for kids, free book rental, the food stamps, the reduced gas & electric for the income level, etc
One last thing...I note from all you deadbeat moms that your primary complaint is ALWAYS MONEY!!! It's never " I wish my ex would keep his money and use it to see our son more often, that would make little Johnny so happy" but, no, you, like the state, could give two shits about little Johnny, you just want money, and you want as much of it as you can get your greedy little fingers on! The day I see women request the courts to lower a support obligation so the NCP can properly participate in parenting is the day you all will become TRUE mothers to your children!!!
Pages
