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How much you earn - the last taboo?

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Maricruz Manzanarez (left) earns $34,000 per year as a senior custodian at UC Berkeley. Her salary is public record, as is the half-million-salary of the president of the California University system Mark Yudof.

I dare you: The next friend or co-worker you see, tell them how much you get paid.

Couldn't do it, could you?

Salary and compensation is as taboo a subject as you can get in America. Many people will talk about their sex lives before they'll talk about the size of their paycheck. But the secrecy surrounding our paychecks may be one reason pay can vary so much, sometimes in unfair ways.

That's not the case for one Boulder, Colo. company: "We have what I like to call 'Extreme Transparency,'" said Amanda Bybee, vice president at Namaste Solar.

There's a lot of sunshine going on inside this solar power installation company. Every employee can see a spreadsheet listing what everybody else makes. Terry Lima, an accountant, said she looks at it all the time and sees quite a few folks paid more.

"I don't feel short-changed," Lima explains. "I am also grateful to know that there's no back-door deals, that I don't have to do some political something so that I can make more money for myself."

Namaste is extreme in other ways, too. It's employee-owned. Every worker, including Surendra Thapa, the forklift driver, is privy to all the company's financials, including every permanent employee's pay rate.


Do you tell your friends, family, or co-workers how much you make? Depends on your income. Explore answers and data from more than 150 respondents.


Given this culture, I figured people like Bybee, the VP, would tell me tell me this transparency about salaries is all sweetness and light. But no.

"I have a colleague who's making a little less than me who comes to me and says 'I don't think you deserve to make more than I am making,'" Bybee said. "This is a true story. He said it respectfully. I listened to him with as much openness as I could. And we're talking a difference of a thousand dollars a year."

Bybee said they worked it out and are buddies again. But CEO Blake Jones acknowledges these conversations are uncomfortable.

"But it's worth, being out in the open," Jones said. "It's worth facing the fears that you might have about talking about it."

Being clear on salaries makes good business sense, Jones says. It builds trust and also makes co-workers accountable -- they notice if someone's getting paid to goof off. But the transparency is for inside the company. Tellingly, neither Jones nor Bybee talks about their pay rate outside the company.

"The taboo around money may be our last standing taboo," said New York University financial sociologist Kate Zaloom.

Zaloom says this explains one of the great mysteries: how it is that given wide gaps in income in America, everybody walks around thinking we're so equal.

"Of course everyone in America thinks that they're middle class," Zaloom said. "But the only way that someone who makes $12,000 a year and someone who makes $200,000 a year can assume that they are all in the same social category is by never actually revealing what they make to each other."

It's not just a social taboo. Many employers enforce this.

"I am in fact prohibited from telling anyone how much I make contractually," Zaloom said.

Had Zaloom worked not for NYU but the University of California, we could look up her pay ourselves. The Sacramento Bee newspaper was able to put the salaries of California state employees onto a website for all to see. How's that make the workers feel, employees like UC Berkeley Professor David Card?

"I'm a labor economist and for a labor economist we're always analyzing salaries. So it's possible I might be desensitized," Card explains. 

So, Professor Card, how much do you make?

"My salary from the university is around $300,000 a year," he said without hesitation. "Well, you can look it up on the Internet."

Card studied the effect of the salary website and found that fellow employees who noticed they were doing better than the average (golden) bear kinda shrugged, but people who were doing worse than their peers tended to be really upset.

"And that might be one of the reasons why employers insist insist on pay secrecy as part of the deal on working there," Card said in a wry tone. "It's really going to make the lower wage people much less happy."

Maricruz Manzanares is a senior custodian at UC Berkeley with more than 12 years experience. She also now sites on the board of her service employees union local. Together, we navigate to the Sacramento Bee's salary website on my iPad.

Here's what it says about Manzanares's pay: $34,493.10.

The pay is obviously no surprise to Manzanares. But as that $34,000 sits there, stark on the iPad screen, she thinks of her three children and how that salary doesn't leave much left over to pay for their college.

"How can we ask my kids to…put more into something that me as a mother cannot even help them with," she wonders.

But she sees there is power in getting salaries out into the open. Her union has used the website to prepare for contract negotiations.

"Actually it's good that somebody put this website on there so we can check," Manzanares said. "If we put Mr. Yudof's name in there, it will show up."

Mark Yudof is the president of the California University system. His salary, according to the database: $560,594.00. Over half a million dollars.

"This is only for him and his wife," Manzanares notes. "My salary has to be for my three children and me. So…that's ridiculous."

Which gets us to the special case of executive salaries. Tomorrow in our Payday series we take a look at how companies decide what to pay those at the very top.


More than 150 people responded to our question whether or not they talk about their salary with friends, family, or co-workers. View a chart show the trends behind their responses and read excerpts.

About the author

David Brancaccio is the host of Marketplace Morning Report. Follow David on Twitter @DavidBrancaccio and @MarketplaceTech

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sparky81884's picture
sparky81884 - Aug 20, 2012

My employee handbook states sharing salary information with co-workers is an fire-able offense. It's always made me wonder what's going on.

Ben_from_Norcross's picture
Ben_from_Norcross - Aug 21, 2012

I once worked for a large company that had that rule, and people had indeed been fired for discussing their salary.

HHT77025's picture
HHT77025 - Aug 20, 2012

NC state employees' pay is also open to anyone who cares to look.

Bitfiddler's picture
Bitfiddler - Aug 20, 2012

If you are in the military, your rank, and therefore your pay grade, is displayed on your sleeve or collar. Everyone knows how much you get paid, even from a distance.

If you are a federal employee working in the "General Schedule" pay system (as almost all do), all of your co-workers know what pay grade you are in because it is determined by the position you fill or the job you do. You just automatically know all of your co-workers base pay. Nobody seems to care much, and if asked they will also tell you how many longevity "step" increases they've received.

There are millions of us who have military or civil service careers and we are totally accustomed to knowing what our co-workers make. It's simply a non-issue. In fact, we are somewhat taken aback about all the secrecy when we exit the federal pay systems and hire on at a private company.

Don Gibbs's picture
Don Gibbs - Aug 20, 2012

Maricruz Manzanares, the senior custodian at UC Berkeley, told David Brancaccio that the fact University of California system president Mark Yudof makes more than $560,000 and has only his wife to support on that salary is “ridiculous” because she has three children to support on her salary of a little more than $34,400.

What’s truly ridiculous is her implied belief that simply because she has three children to support, and Mr. Yudof has only his wife to support, the pay disparity between them is “ridiculous”. The last I knew, nobody in this country gets paid based on the number of dependents supported by the paycheck.

Ms. Manzanares obviously does not have either the educational or professional credentials of Mr. Yudof, and equally obviously, does not have the professional responsibilities Mr. Yudof has. Therefore, under our economic system, it is appropriate that Mr. Yudof be paid at a higher annual rate than Ms. Manzanares.

The relevant question, of course, is one for which there are as many “answers” as there are people with an opinion. That question is: Are Mr. Yudof’s combination of educational and professional credentials, in combination with the responsibilities of his position, sufficiently greater than the same criteria for Ms. Manzanares to justify his earning more than 16 times as much as she does.

Bitfiddler's picture
Bitfiddler - Aug 20, 2012

Don Gibbs - If you are a soldier in the U.S. military, your pay varies depending on how may dependents you have. An E-5 Sergeant with a spouse and a child gets paid somewhat more than an E-5 without dependents. The military is the only place I'm aware of where this happens routinely.

a c h's picture
a c h - Aug 20, 2012

Is an employer prohibition on discussing pay rates not a violation of the National Labor Relations Act?

preppy's picture
preppy - Aug 20, 2012

A long time ago, a colleague asked me how much I earned. I told him that he needed to think about the question, and if he still wanted to swap information, then I was OK with the exchange. I had no idea what he might earn, and I didn't care either. Anyway, a few days later he said "Let's do it".

It turned out that I earned more than he did...much to his chagrin.

Be careful what you wish for!!!!

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