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Online groceries for all, including food stamp users
Workers prepare grocery boxes in the new FreshDirect online grocery service warehouse in New York City. The USDA just approved a program that would allow some food stamp users to buy groceries online. The CEO of FreshDirect says it's about access to fresh food for all.
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David Brancaccio: Today as part of our coverage of Wealth and Poverty issues, we'll explore an inequality when it comes food stamps. In this case where people can use them. For instance, groceries bought online can't be paid for with food stamps. The U.S. Agriculture Department just announced it'll pilot a program with one New York grocery store to allow a small number of food stamp recipients to buy groceries online. But Congress would have to make this nationwide.
Jason Ackerman is the CEO of the grocery store that is piloting the program -- FreshDirect. Good morning, Mr. Ackerman.
Jason Ackerman: Good morning, David.
Brancaccio: So you're calling for what -- food stamp recipients to be able to buy groceries online?
Ackerman: That's correct.
Brancaccio: Why?
Ackerman: Well currently, food stamps, you cannot transact online. The EBT program is not modernized, so if you're a food stamp recipient, you can't buy online.
Brancaccio: I have to tell you, though, that buying groceries online seems like an upscale sort of thing. You think it could work for this, a different market segment like this?
Ackerman: We do. In fact, if you look at a lot of the food stamp recipients are working moms, and they're trying balance a life of raising their kids and working. And I think that convenience is valuable, and eating nutritiously is valuable. So we do think there's a marketplace for it.
Brancaccio: Now, many lower-income people will have trouble with fast Internet access. Could that be a barrier here?
Ackerman: It's a bit of a misnomer that low-incomers do not have Internet access. I think it's getting stronger. It's certainly not the entire segment of the population. But no, we feel pretty good that the access is there.
Brancaccio: What motivates you here? Is this about being able to have even more customers, bigger markets?
Ackerman: In a small way. But I think largely, FreshDirect really believes it's part of our corporate obligation to be able to create access of nutritious foods for all income levels. I think when you look at the lower-income parts of New York, there is a real obesity problem and diabetes problem. And if we can be a part of the solution by creating access of quality, nutritious foods -- which is lacking in those areas -- then we really want to do our part.
Brancaccio: And you're not just saying that. There is evidence, right, that shows that in some tough neighborhoods, you can't just easily walk to a place to find fresh produce?
Ackerman: No, you can't. You can maybe find at the local bodega, but it's also likely not as fresh, and it could quite often be very expensive. If you do go into the Bronx, for example, and talk to the community, they really have a hard time accessing fresh foods. And this could make it more accessible for everybody.
Brancaccio: You're going to put these local bodegas out of business?
Ackerman: Well I think there's room in the market for everybody, but hopefully people will eat more nutritiously.
Brancaccio: Jason Ackerman, CEO of Fresh Direct. Thank you very much.
Ackerman: Thank you, David. Glad to be here.
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As a cancer survivor on Social Security Disability (and therefore food stamps because that doesn't make ends meet) I can say that it would have helped me out a great deal during my radiation treatment and surgery if I could have ordered my food online. It was very challenging and difficult to have my family get my food for me and because I'm an honest person I was very concerned with them using my food stamp card at the store considering they aren't me and it could be considered fraud. I wrote up a letter stating that I was a cancer patient in the event they were to get stopped in the store!
As another note, after I finished my treatments and surgery and was able to go to the store again I actually found a company that will deliver some foods and accepts EBT. It is Schwan's. The problem is I also have 30+ food allergies (a result of the inflammation caused by radiation) so I am allergic to nearly everything on their menu. That would have been helpful on days/weeks when I wasn't feeling well. I would imagine there is a significant portion of people on EBT who are also unable to go to the grocery store both physically or mentally. I know someone on disability for mental health - social anxiety to be exact. He must go to a 24/7 grocery store after 10pm to be able to survive and even then has a great deal of difficulty. Although he can physically withstand it, going into a public forum like that is a living nightmare for him. Grocery delivery would be a wonderful solution. I don't believe grocery delivery to be something that is a luxury service. That could be a generational difference. I'm borderline Millennial. I think you should be able to do everything through the internet. :) That's where I met my boyfriend and we are going on over 3 years now. He was the one who usually went to grocery to get my stuff when I couldn't! I guess I did "order" my grocery delivery online!
As a cancer survivor on Social Security Disability (and therefore food stamps because that doesn't make ends meet) I can say that it would have helped me out a great deal during my radiation treatment and surgery if I could have ordered my food online. It was very challenging and difficult to have my family get my food for me and because I'm an honest person I was very concerned with them using my food stamp card at the store considering they aren't me and it could be considered fraud. I wrote up a letter stating that I was a cancer patient in the event they were to get stopped in the store!
As another note, after I finished my treatments and surgery and was able to go to the store again I actually found a company that will deliver some foods and accepts EBT. It is Schwan's. The problem is I also have 30+ food allergies (a result of the inflammation caused by radiation) so I am allergic to nearly everything on their menu. That would have been helpful on days/weeks when I wasn't feeling well. I would imagine there is a significant portion of people on EBT who are also unable to go to the grocery store both physically or mentally. I know someone on disability for mental health - social anxiety to be exact. He must go to a 24/7 grocery store after 10pm to be able to survive and even then has a great deal of difficulty. Although he can physically withstand it, going into a public forum like that is a living nightmare for him. Grocery delivery would be a wonderful solution. I don't believe grocery delivery to be something that is a luxury service. That could be a generational difference. I'm borderline Millennial. I think you should be able to do everything through the internet. :) That's where I met my boyfriend and we are going on over 3 years now. He was the one who usually went to grocery to get my stuff when I couldn't! I guess I did "order" my grocery delivery online!
Ok, first of all I think it is a wonderful opportunity for snap customers to be able to buy online. Today economy their all a lot more people on food stamps, including me. I don't think people should judge if someone is misusing their benefits. I know when I was out of toilet paper and other supplies I had to buy someone grocery's so I could have the products I was out of. I don't do drugs or drink so my money went on bills and I just could not buy the items I needed. It might have been wrong in the governments eyes to do so but to provide the things I needed to for my children I did what needed to be done. Times are rough and might even get worse.. So I agree that putting online grocery products for everyone including food stamp people is a wonderful ideal. A walmart is about 15 miles from me, I have to buy wisely (preferably in bulk) so I don't like going to mom and pop stores where they want a lot of money to buy items. I also do not buy junk food like candy or sodas so my children have never really had it. I have to buy food that I prepare every night so we can have a sit down meal.. Yes their are families out there that does that... So please stop judging others if your not been in their shoes or even know what is going on.. I recently in the process of a divorce and its hard trying to go from one side to the other. So be-careful you might end up using food stamps as well.. I also walk to the store not to buy candy but food. My car is shot so I do not have one at this time. I do have my Associates Degree and currently out of a job, remember the economy is not in good shape and I do live in a small community.. So online grocery shopping for people with food stamps is an great ideal..
I'm also on EBT but I am single. I really feel for people who have children and are living in these conditions. Poverty is very difficult. I have multiple college degrees and thought going through the rigorous academic work was quite a challenge. I am also a cancer survivor and survivor of sexual assault. I literally believe that the most difficult thing I have had to deal with, second to severe depression, is poverty. When you fear not being able to eat or knowing where you will live, there is nothing worse than that. Nothing. I'm glad you are doing what you need to do (regardless of the rules) to create an environment for your children so they don't have to feel the full extent of that emotion.
many people using snap are handicapped, think of that. why should snap users not use benefits online, its all the same to the supermarkets, financially? think of how poor one has to be to try to sell food stamps. it may be illegal, but how ridiculous. anyway, i'm poor, i'm online, i walk a mile or so to the grocery store too many times, and i wished food stamps could be used online. why would you even comment?
In listening to this story, I started to wonder if the lack of a face to face interaction, for using food stamps to purchase groceries, would make it easier to misuse SNAP benefits.
A year or so ago, I was riding a public bus and overheard a woman talking on her mobile phone and negotiating to sell someone some food stamps (my impression was that she was not the actual recipient of the food stamps but was acting as a broker). She was seated in the last row of seats, and I was in the middle near the central doors, so my being able to understand what she was saying indicates how brazenly she was transacting her business. Since I've only witnessed one such incident is probably indicative of how infrequently benefits are misused, but it does happen. I wonder if the impersonal nature of transactions over the Internet will encourage those who want to "game the system" or if the electronic "trail" will make it harder (or at least more complicated) for someone who isn't the intended recipient to use the food stamps.
As someone on EBT, I can tell you there will always be a way to "game the system" and people will always find a way to do it. I had a neighbor for awhile that I believe was probably a drug dealer. I could tell he owed someone some money big time. I started to notice this guy would come, visit him, then come back with groceries. I assume that was what was going down. I think anytime anyone is desperate in life they will do things like that. As a Christian, I reached out to him and helped him find the nearest food pantry. Food pantries will provide you with basic needs and you do not have to use your food stamps. When there was an issue with my food stamps (not of my own doing, of problems within the government), they denied me food stamps for 2 months. It was a terrible, dark time in my life. I had to go to the food pantry myself. I can assure you that even that guy, the drug dealer, felt extreme amounts of guilt for doing such things. He did not want to be in that life position. There is a reason it is called "the cycle of poverty". I am college educated and literally worry I will be stuck in this black hole forever. It's like swimming upstream into a fisherman's net - you can try as much as you want but it's not going to be easy to get out. Cancer got me here but for many they are here after centuries of family heritage. Their parents struggled, their grandparents struggled, etc. Many are from underprivileged populations. It's easy to take for granted you privilege and to misunderstand where other's come from when you are sitting in a different position able to operate in your daily life without the cloud of uncertainty that comes with poverty.
As someone on EBT, I can assure you it is very easy to misuse them even face to face. There is never any verification of who you are in a store. The store just wants money. You can just have someone else scan your card and as long as they know your pin, they are good to go. I really don't think it's any different than a self checkout lane. I guess the stores have security cameras, but like I said they aren't exactly motivated to be concerned with who you are - they just want the money.
I cringe at the self righteousness judgments of others that always seem to arise whenever we are discussing choices made by those in poverty. Do you buy all of your groceries on foot, sir? Would you consider carrying a week's worth of groceries for a family of four and an infant in a stroller on the subway avoiding "even the mildest of physical activity?" Hilarious?
I agree that it is best to walk or bike to buy groceries, to go to work, to the bank, to the doctor, etc. I am lucky to live in a city where it is possible for me to do all those things (these amenities are near my home and my neighborhood is safe). But even I will take a car out twice a month to go to a mainstream grocery store because the prices are so much lower on healthy food items, everything from canned beans to fresh lettuce to gallons of milk. It's not because I'm fat and lazy, but because I am on a strict budget and to avoid living on "candy and soda" as you so discouragingly remark, I need to shop at less urban markets. And while admonishing obesity, it was excellent to reference the fact that the poor don't know how to feed themselves and are wasting their SNAP benefits on "candy and soda." The USDA looked into this and compared individuals on SNAP to those above 130% of the poverty line. For soft drinks, 1.8 % more SNAP participants drank soda than non-participants. For sweets, 10.5 % of SNAP participants ate less than non-participants. For salty snacks, 6.9 % of SNAP participants ate less than non-participants. For more info, google search "usda eligible food items snap" and it will be the first result.
I understand hearing stories on obesity and SNAP so close together makes it easy to connect them. What is important is that each of us tries to recognize and correct our inherent prejudices of others.
An opportunity for people who live in areas currently without access to fresh produce being able to order it over the internet with their SNAP card? I'm not laughing.
Thanks for your comment! As someone on EBT, I agree. I just thought of another thing: there are MANY times when I literally go without getting groceries because I cannot afford the gas in my car to get to the grocery store. The store is 4 miles from my apartment. That's poverty. I used to be so naive about poverty - I am college educated and had a great career. I think it's one of those things you really have to live to fully understand it. I'm glad there are compassionate people try to understand regardless.
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