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Ethanol could kill your small engine
An ethanol pump
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Kai Ryssdal: Thirty-six billion gallons -- that's how much renewable fuel the government says the U.S. must produce by 2022. And here's an unexpected consequence of that ethanol mandate: Alcohol is murder on lawnmowers and small engines. Mechanics insist that as gasoline blended with ethanol takes over at gas stations, small engines across the country will start choking to death. Wyoming Public Radio's Peter O'Dowd reports.
Peter O'Dowd: At the WyoTech automotive school in Laramie, Wyo., Larry Wostenburg likes to conduct experiments with engines for his students. Today's test: how much ethanol a small engine can take before it breaks down.
Larry Wostenburg: We're going to put a little choke action on here and start this baby up.
Wostenburg pours alcohol into a lawnmower's fuel tank. His supervisor Jack Longress explains why using too much ethanol can destroy this kind of engine.
Jack Longress: It's a recipe for disaster because, eventually, when those pieces get brittle they're more susceptible to breaking.
Alcohol makes engines run dangerously hot. It melts rubber components. Longress says use anything higher than 10 percent ethanol on small engines long enough, and the insides will start to rot.
Longress: The corrosive properties, what you'd see is, much like what you see on the top of dirty battery terminals.
Drivers of flex-fuel cars don't have to worry much. Their on-board computers can regulate fuel mixtures. But small engines like WyoTech's lawnmower don't have those features. They're more likely to malfunction if they're filled with the wrong blend, and broken engines can mean injured operators. That's just one of the reasons why Kris Kiser is so worried. He's with AllSafe, an advocate group for small-engine manufacturers.
Kris Kiser: What were concerned about are mid-level blends entering into the marketplace in advance of consumers being educated about their use and what their affects will be.
Kiser says millions of chainsaws, lawnmowers and boats could be vulnerable to death by ethanol. This year the government ordered the production of 9 billion gallons of renewable fuel. A decade from now, that number will grow to 26 billion gallons. As the mandate expands, Kiser says higher blends of ethanol will be pumped from every gas station in America. And unless people know what they're doing, he says they could easily fill up with a blend far too potent for their machines.
Kiser: If they drive up to a pump and they see E-20, E-30, E-40, I don't think they know what that means. Even if they do know what it means -- that E-30 means 30 percent ethanol in the gallon they're producing -- if they are selling it at the pump, I think there is the assumption that it's OK, that it's going to work in whatever I put it in.
Ron Lamberty: That's kind of a moot point. We've already got those concerns.
Ron Lamberty works for the American Coalition of Ethanol. He points out that consumers are quite capable of telling the difference between diesel and regular fuel at the gas station. He says America's well on the road to using more renewable fuels like ethanol. Small engine manufacturers can either protest, he says, or start improving their products.
Lamberty: If we always listened to the naysayers, we would still be sitting here with leaded regular gasoline in the United States. We've got to move forward and the small engine guys have to come along.
Critics say they might come along more quickly if the science were more definitive. No one really knows exactly how sensitive small engines are to ethanol. The standard threshold for lawnmowers, for example, is 10 percent, but our experiment showed it could run on a much richer mixture.
The Department of Energy published a study on ethanol in small engines this fall. You can check just how deadly the fuel might be to your old John Deere.
In Laramie, Wyo., I'm Peter O'Dowd for Marketplace.
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What the hell is up with all this environmentally friendly crap. We NEED gas. The only reason gas is unleaded instead of leaded is because some idiot decided it would increase new car sales and make gas "safer" wtf? Safe gas? it made gas cost more just as ethanol made gas cost more that methanol did. All this save the environment stuff is BS. americans wont give up gas because we are dependant on it. GO TO AFRICA YOU TREE HUGGERS-no cars to pollute your precious air. The world has to end someday and humans will all die before that. Have a nice day and don't hit the red button nukes are "dangerous". BYE BYE middle east
I don't have any problem with the use of ethanol in products that say they are designed to handle it. My problem is what to do for our older products that we know were designed to run on regular gas. I have been hearing of damaged fuel systems? and would like to know if anyone has experienced damage to a new product that has stated that it can use ethanol up to 10%. Also at what time did products change to except this ethanol or how can one tell if thier product can use it or not? . Thanks for any help in this matter Thomas Bovard , E-mails are welcome.
I do boat repairs in south tampa fla.
the E10 is dissoving everything including fuel pumps, fuel lines, fuel tanks and attracting water into fuel cells. and combining with exsisting water in cells and increasing there levels of water and ethenol (will not burn}. also cleaning out 2cycle blocks and putting all the debri in places you dont want it oh, wait its eating up the crank shaft seals. anything above E10 we are all screwed BUY NEW YOU WONT HAVE A CHOICE
What about car engines over 30 years old, i.e. my 1975 VW Bug? My mechanic thinks recent problems are due to the gas tank et al being "scrubbed out." Then not passing through the fuel injection system properly. I love my old car and hope to keep her running.
I am a member of a snowmobile family and have been concerned about that fact that I have to use 10% ethanol in my new 600 SDI Ski-doo's. I have been a faithful user of marvel mystery oil in everything for 35+ years and feel that this is the answer when it comes to protecting my snowmobile engines and fuel systems. I'm not sure but I think I should not use any isopropyl dry gas any more to suspend any water that I may get on the trail while gassing up becuase this will raise my alcohol level even higher than 10%. Can anyone tell me if I still need to worry about water or does the 10% ethanol provide the same protection as my dry gas. Thanking all in advance for any help in this matter . Thanks Tom
Just to clarify our position, outdoor power equipment manufacturers are not anti ethanol and can design product to run on a wide range of fuels and ethanol levels. We do not object to increasing ethanol levels to meet government mandates. Quite the opposite, equipment manufacturers will gladly produce new product for customers to meet new fuel requirements. Our main and continuing concern is simply our customers and their safety. The fact is that running existing equipment - boats, snowmobiles, ATVs, and non flex-fuel automobiles on fuels that they were not designed for presents very real safety and performance issues.
For example, boat engine failure miles from shore, snowmobile engine failure in remote areas in inclement weather, chainsaw blades engaging with premature clutch engagement are demonstrable safety and use issues. This is about engineering and science. We’re happy to build new equipment for new fuels with increased ethanol but we’ll not sit idly by and put our customers’ safety and economic interests at risk.
As stated in the interview and to legislators and regulators our concern is the transition to new fuels and their use in product for which it was not designed. We must look at the lesson of history when ethanol was pushed into the fuels marketplace in the 1970s during the oil embargo. Widespread product and engine failures created a consumer backlash against the fuel. The lesson learned is: If you are going to use a particular fuel…design for it. It also has to be emission compliant. Outdoor power equipment manufactures now have to meet EPA emission and evaporative requirements like automobiles and different fuels have different emission profiles. Regrettably, the issue is simply more complicated that many ethanol proponents acknowledge. If you are going to change the fuels in the existing fuels marketplace then fully educate consumers about the effects on existing equipment. Outdoor power equipment manufacturers currently produce product that operates on battery, solar, electric, propane, CNG, diesel, gasoline and ethanol-gasoline fuel blends to E-10. We fully support and are cooperatively working with the Department of Energy on testing equipment with ethanol blend fuels to better understand the effects and the challenges in transitioning them to market. Sadly, we are portrayed by some commentators as anti-ethanol. We are not. We fully support the government’s efforts to reduce our dependence on foreign sources of oil. Outdoor power equipment makers are consumer product companies that value their customers’ safety and their products’ performance in their hands and are able and willing to design and build new equipment to meet government fuel requirements. We are just mindful of history’s lessons.
Kris Kiser
Executive Vice President, Outdoor Power Equipment Institute
Ethanol kills ??? Only in a place like Wyoming ...
Ethanol is trying to prevent deaths from the stupid, small engines, using carcinogenic, crude-derived gasoline.
Use electric tools (much cleaner and cheaper) and stop driving your cars, then I believe you're truly concerned.
So don't shoot the messenger and cry the crocodile tears.
A few years ago I was watching a race on television. The fuel used by these cars was alcohol. One driver had an accident that I believe split the fuel tank. The alcohol must have caught on fire because the driver got out and appeared to be jumping around. You can't see the flame in an alcohol fire. Someone from a pit crew went out and doused the driver with a dry chemical fire extinguiser. The driver was still experiencing pain but the pit crew could not tell if the flame was out. Is this the alcohol that we will use for our energy needs?
The comment by Mr. Proctor on using 100 octane avgas points to the problem faced by owners of small aircraft. When the refiners stopped producing 80 octane avgas, many of us went to the expense of certifying unleaded 87 octane auto fuel for use in our aircraft. This avoided lead fowling of the aircraft spark plugs and as well as introduction of lead into the environment associated with 100 octane avgas (which has four times as much lead as the old 80 octane avgas or pre '70s leaded gasoline). Fuel with any ethanol (even less than 5%) can not be used - not only because of corrosion to fuel systems, but the differences in vapor pressure for ethanol can cause engine failure at altitude. Due to government mandate, I can no longer find auto fuel without ethanol and am forced to burn a highly leaded fuel. Another unintended consequence of government mandates.
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