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'Our Black Year': One couple's challenge to shop black-owned businesses
Maggie Anderson started "The Empowering Experiment" to see if she and her husband could patronize only black-owned businesses. The results were surprising.
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Kai Ryssdal: John and Maggie Anderson live in Oak Park, Ill.; it's an upscale suburb just outside of Chicago. It's right up against the west side of the city, which is not upscale.
The west side of Chicago is mostly poor, and mostly black. And for a year, it was at the center of an experiment the Andersons ran on themselves -- and on us, too, I guess: To find and shop only at black-owned businesses. They called it "The Empowerment Experiment," and it's detailed in her new book, "Our Black Year." Good to have you both with us.
Maggie Anderson: Hi there, thank you for having us.
John Anderson: Hello Kai, how are you?
Ryssdal: Maggie, I want to start, actually, at the very beginning of the book. And I'm just going to read you your first sentence, and it's dated Jan. 2nd, 2009. And you say, "The closer we got to Jay's Fresh Meats, the more my stomach hurt. It wasn't supposed to be like this." Tell us about that. This was your first real outing, right, to find a black-owned business?
Maggie Anderson: For us, the real beginning may have been where were conceiving the experiment, we were thinking about exciting it would be. And then that changed when we actually had to get in a car and go to the west side of Chicago. Folks like John and myself don't do that ever. We live in a pretty affluent suburb of Oak Park.
Ryssdal: Even, we should say, black folks, right? It's, you know, you don't go there.
Maggie Anderson: Oh yeah. So we were literally just going through the phone book and looking for addresses on the west side of Chicago, and calling, "Hi, I'm Maggie Anderson. I'm trying to find a black-owned business -- are you black-owned?" So we put Jay's Fresh Meats on our list. That's all we knew about Jay's Fresh Meats. It was basically a convenient store, and it was filthy. No one was in there shopping. It was tiny. The owner was not very welcoming. And then when she heard me talk, you know, she was like, yeah, she felt I was an Oak Parker -- not another sister. And the whole point of my coming to her store was to show her that we are the same and I want to support her.
Ryssdal: Well it was interesting, because you confess in your book that you changed the way you spoke to her a little bit, once you got into that environment.
Maggie Anderson: If you have this conversation with more middle-class African-Americans, you're going to see that we do that all the time.
Ryssdal: Well this is the thing that's going to get us emails calling me a horrible person, but you don't sound black over the phone, right?
John Anderson: Well, we're using our phone and radio voices.
Maggie Anderson: No, this is how we talk to each other, and our friends.
John Anderson: Yeah, we used to call it 'lapsing into the dialect.'
Maggie Anderson: Yes. But when we want to make sure we're connecting, we do lapse every once in a while.
Ryssdal: Right. John, tell me the happy story. You go through many, many, many iterations of walking in, finding a very depressing black-owned business, and then finally you walk in to this place that is clean and well-stocked and has good employees. Tell us about Farmer's Best Market.
John Anderson: To set this up, it's kind of sad that we were so surprised that it fit the criteria. Karriem Beyah was the owner of the store. He was a well-educated businessman who set up shop in a food desert area, which was a part of town that typically has residents that don't have access to fresh food. But it was fairly empty.
Maggie Anderson: So this wasn't just 'don't be Jay's, be Karriem's Farmer's Best.' It wasn't just that. It's just that once we even have those top-quality businesses with everything right, our own people won't make that extra step to just support them.
Ryssdal: You actually say at a couple of points, and you've got the statistics to back it up, that just spending money in black-owned businesses isn't enough, right? And what are you supposed to do if just spending money's not enough?
Maggie Anderson: Of course you want everybody to support the mom-and-pops. You should have a black dry cleaner. You should try to go to black restaurants twice a week. But we need the corporations to do a lot better with doing business with our businesses. That's the bigger part of the story. And think about the fact that in the top 500 privately held companies, none of those are black. It can't just be Oprah and Jay-Z. We can grow the South Coast Papers of the world -- that's where I get my paper; they're sold in OfficeMax. But if we can make South Coast Paper one of the biggest paper companies in the world, and help them -- they're now at 70 employees -- why can't they be 500 employees? Think about what we can do just by buying paper.
Ryssdal: Maggie Anderson. Her book is called "Our Black Year." Maggie and John, thanks a lot.
Maggie Anderson: Thank you so much, it was a pleasure.
John Anderson: Thanks for having us.
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I think criticism of Kai for his comment/question, "you don't sound black"is absolute nonsense. His comment was relevant and consistent with the conversation.
Maggie Anderson: The owner was not very welcoming. And then when she heard me talk, you know, she was like, yeah, she felt I was an Oak Parker -- not another sister. And the whole point of my coming to her store was to show her that we are the same and I want to support her.
Ryssdal: Well it was interesting, because you confess in your book that you changed the way you spoke to her a little bit, once you got into that environment.
Maggie Anderson: If you have this conversation with more middle-class African-Americans, you're going to see that we do that all the time.
Ryssdal: Well this is the thing that's going to get us emails calling me a horrible person, but you don't sound black over the phone, right?
Mrs. Anderson just admitted that SHE CHANGED THE WAY SHE TALKED when she was talking with the owner (a black woman) of the store. So, Kai's comment was germane, I think.
I suppose Kai's comment could be taken as an insult, depending on how it is said and the context, but Kai obviously did NOT intend it as an insult.
That the voices of many - *not all*, but many - black Americans have a distinctive "tone" or "resonance" or accent (I do not know the correct terms for describing a voice.) is a reality, and anyone who says otherwise either has not experienced that reality or is denying it. I do not know why I can often tell that someone is black by the sound of their voice, but I can. Do an internet search on "why do black people voices sound different" and see how many results you get. Do you think all those people posing and discussing the question are being insulting to blacks? If so, then I think you are hyper-sensitive to anything that might be construed as racist.
My cultural/religious background is Judaism. My great-grandparents immigrated to the U.S. from Poland in the early 1900's. If you told me I look "Jewish", I would not be the least bit surprised or insulted. People of different cultures often have a distinctive look and/or sound. That's just how it is.
Furthermore... The a black American might take a comment from a white American about characteristics often associated with black people as an insult has, I think, a lot to do with America's history of slavery, segregation and racism against blacks. Generations of white Americans committed many despicable, horrible crimes and injustices against American blacks. Racism by American whites against American blacks is still common, but not as prevalent as it used to be. What bothers me at the interpersonal level is the anger or downright hate so many American blacks have towards whites.
Many years ago I had a job servicing snack and soda vending machines. One of my responsibilities was filling the vending machines in the large snack room at local county hospital in a predominately black neighborhood on Sunday mornings. One day someone spilled some coffee on the floor. I cleaned it up. As I was wiping up the coffee a black man sitting at one of the tables was watching me. In a very contemptuous tone, he delightedly said, "It does my heart good to see a white boy on his knees."
*I* never owned slaves. *I* never discriminated blacks. *I* never promoted segregation. And yet, there are many black people who would hate me simply because I am white. I am guilty by association.
If you are black and hate white people simple because they are white, you are no better than white people who hate black people simply because they are black. If you are hypersensitive to comments about race or ethnicity, the problem is in you, not the object of your anger.
Kai?
You? A bad person?
Nah! Ignorant, perhaps, but not bad.
Welcome to the realization that Americans should sound, well, AMERICAN, and not identifiable by ethnicity.
Thanks for featuring this story on Marketplace. It's good to know that there are other Black people seeking to economically empower black-owned businesses. Now, if we could get more white people to do the same, we'd be making real progress.
I enjoy Marketplace and listen to you each night on my drive home. Your statement: you don't sound black over the phone was insulting. It's nice that the Anderson's want to shop in a black neighborhood, but why visit a place that's not in a good neighborhood and filthy and you feel uncomfortable shopping there? Makes no sense to me. Why put yourself in jeopardy for whatever may happen to you while you are there? By the way, how does someone black sound over the phone? That wasn't a very nice thing to say, Kai.
She misses the mark big-time with no differentiation from the descendents of actual slaves and the descendents of those that sold them. The term African American started up in about the late 1970's to validate migrants from Africa benefiting from programs set up originally to benefit descendents of slavery. Karriem Beyah does not sound like he was born here...An American born black is scrutinized and discriminated in all personal and professional dealings in this country. Yet, it sure must be nice to come from a third world country; backrounds are impossible to verify and records are easily falsified. I just love seeing the Eritrean student cheating his way through college on a scholarship named after a civil rights leader!!!!! Because even if he's not a citizen, he can say he's African American and reap the benefits for those that have never been arrested or convicted of a crime. This is why there is always this big shock when one of these people gets caught in a Nursing Home molesting patients. "He was just so nice and his "record" was clean. And access to credit is more easily given for business start-ups to someone whose only been in the country under 5 years rather than someone whose been here there whole life. Also remember that many times you are seeing the wealthier immigrants...I don't mean rich but by and large better than the average of their respective country to afford the "visa application" fee many of them paid or their parents paid to get them here. An old friend of mine from Eritrea told me his father owned and drove a beat-up pick-up making deliveries in his country. He told me that it was a big deal just for him to have the truck...When he told me that guys who drove cab here from his country were looked upon "back home" as if they were fighter pilots flying F-16's, I didn't want to believe it. But then I realized that if most of the people in his country were starving living in 3rd world conditions, he was right. If it's any country half-way around the world you see someone from, don't assume that they are like the average in their country; they are more than likely the elite.
Mr. Rysdall, I don't think you are a horrible person but I did find your comment to the Anderson's, "You don't sound black over the phone" to be insulting and racist. I don't fault the Anderson's for ignoring the insult - they have their hands full assisting in the revival of businesses and neighborhoods. Black Americans, you must know this, have a multitude of 'sounds' just like any other racial group in America including white Americans. Somehow you made sounding Black seem like something negative. The Anderson's do sound black. They sound intelligent and enlightened.
They use correct grammar with proper enunciation and pronunciation of words. Hey their subjects and verbs agree. Imagine that! Hey, in case you want to hear more people sounding Black hop on you tube and check out Presidnt
Obama, Oprah, James Earl Jones, Npr's Meshelle Norris, PBS' tavis smiley and kwame Hollman. I hope I've made my point
"Well this is the thing that's going to get us emails calling me a horrible person, but you don't sound black over the phone, right?"
Horrible person? Hardly. People all over the United States have learned to expect that people who look a certain way will also sound a certain way.
I enjoyed listening to this story, but I think it missed a bigger point, which hits at the heart of the economy in the black community. It goes all the way back to segregation. Prior to desegregation, the only businesses blacks supported were black-owned, community businesses. As soon as we were able to, we went to white businesses and the socio-economic effects can be seen in many ways, here are two examples: 1. During segregation, the black lawyers and doctors lived in the same communities as the garbage men and other blue collar workers, all of which supported the same local black economy. When blacks could move out and did, that left only a certain economic class in communities such as the West Side of Chicago, which was mentioned in the story. 2. If you look at the Negro Leagues in baseball, there was a thriving industry around the black-owned teams in various cities, plus the black-owned hotels in said cities where black athletes would stay. As soon as Jackie Robinson went to the major league, it marked the beginning of the break up of the black organizations around baseball. That example is just a microcasm of the segregation double-edged sword in the black community. Some of it plays out psychologically as well. While many white communities did not want us, we still went and patronized those businesses. I may check this book out. -Jamal B
Bless you, Marketplace, for recognizing an important story ~ although I must say the interview did not convey the essence of "Our Black Year," which is a super read and an important topic! The essence is that Black money leaves the Black neighborhoods and ends up in White neighborhoods. Maggie and John went out of their way to investigate a situation and discovered that Blacks don't support Black businesses - even the well-run, conveniently-located ones. I can't wait to read Anderson's next book that addresses the question, "why?"
Wow, what a strange and uncomfortable story. From Kai trying to be sensitive and the couple talking about reverting to a dialect. I think the story is more about middle class and lower class than about supporting black businesses. For example, I have no desire to go to the cheap side of my white town and buy something from the quick mart, liquor store or low grade grocery. Why would I want to support that layer of business? They have the support they need from the folks who are comfortable shopping and living there. If those customers wanted A Clean, Well-Lighted Place; they would shop in such a place and business owners would operate such a place. But, thanks for always providing a variety of stories and an engaging and friendly format.
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