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Allegations against U of Phoenix persist

A University of Phoenix sign.

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Katherine Clark with her boyfriend Daniel Ray and their dog Cadence.

Michele Rambo, 23, of Grand Prairie, Texas.

TEXT OF STORY

Kai Ryssdal: While most businesses are still trying to find their way out of the recession, for-profit higher education is doing quite fine, thanks very much. Enrollments are up 20 percent, profits are up as well. But that doesn't mean there aren't any problems.

The biggest for-profit schools get most of their revenue from federal student loans. The billions of dollars their customers borrow to pay tuition. The University of Phoenix is the biggest for-profit school out there, probably the best known as well.

A few years ago, it paid the government $10 million over accusations about its high-pressure recruiting tactics. Now it's put aside another $80 million to settle a lawsuit about the same thing.

And a joint Marketplace ProPublica investigation shows some for-profit schools are still abusing the system. Sharona Coutts and Amy Scott reported our two-part series. Here's Amy:


AMY SCOTT: You've seen the ads on mass transit, Facebook and TV, promising job retraining, online classes, flexible schedules.

UNIVERSITY OF PHOENIX AD: I was the first in my family to graduate from college. But I won't be the last.

Hundreds of thousands of Americans have been drawn to for-profit colleges like the University of Phoenix.

UNIVERSITY OF PHOENIX AD: And I am a Phoenix.

Phoenix isn't the only school that profits from the stream of federal student aid. But it's the single biggest recipient. Last fiscal year, 86 percent of its revenue came from the federal government. That's more than $3 billion. But who's benefiting from all that money?

MICHELE RAMBO: My name is Michele Rambo, and I live in Grand Prairie, Texas.

Rambo signed up at the University of Phoenix in Dallas a few years ago.

RAMBO: I did tell them that I was pregnant and they were like, oh, well that just solves everything, you know, you qualify for a grant, you're covered. And I'm like, so I don't have to pay anything? And they told me no.

Classes went well. She got good grades. She was almost finished with her associate degree when a school counselor called about moving her on to a bachelor's program.

RAMBO: And one of the questions that she asked me completely stopped the whole conversation. She had asked me, so what kind of loan do you have?

Rambo thought she didn't have a loan. But when she enrolled, she signed what she thought was a form inquiring about federal aid.

Turns out it was an application for loans that'll cost her $18,000 when she graduates.

RAMBO: It was scary. It still is scary. I'm still scared. I still don't even know what I'm going to do yet.

So how could this happen?

It turns out the enrollment counselors at the University of Phoenix get paid in part based on how many students they recruit. The university's negotiating the settlement of a lawsuit that claims employees were pressured to sign people up.

Bill Pepicello is president of the University of Phoenix. He says his school goes out of its way to ensure counselors don't mislead students.

BILL PEPICELLO: We train our financial counselors very carefully to provide an array of options for students, and to try to be as specific as they can as to what the implications of each of those are.

One financial aid expert told us it's not uncommon for students to sign a bunch of paperwork without really understanding the terms of their loans.

Sound familiar?

At a recent hearing, Congressman George Miller of California likened problems in student lending to another recent crisis.

GEORGE MILLER: I'm a little worried that we're developing a process here that looks a lot like sort of subprime student loans. And knowing that these people don't have the capacity to pay it back, knowing that they may not have the ability to benefit from this education, we go ahead and extend them the credit...

What he means by not benefiting, is that many students saddled with debt don't finish their degrees. The for-profit industry says about 60 percent of its students graduate from two-year programs. The University of Phoenix says its rate is less than half that. But whether students drop out or graduate, they still leave school burdened with debt. And it's debt they can't escape.

BARMAK NASSIRIAN: It is very important to understand, student loans are the most collectible obligation in the United States.

Barmak Nassirian is with the American Association of Collegiate Registrars and Admissions Officers.

NASSIRIAN: Students who default on their student loans have their Social Security benefits intercepted, have their tax returns intercepted, have their wages garnished. They are ruined for life.

The Department of Education says more and more students are falling behind on their loans. For-profit schools have a higher default rate than the average.

Harris Miller represents many for-profit schools as CEO of the Career College Association, a lobby group in Washington, D.C. He says defaults are higher at his schools not because they're for-profit, but because they sign up poor people. People who might not otherwise have a shot at college.

HARRIS MILLER: The simple fact is if your institution is willing to accept lower income students, which our institutions are, which community colleges are, which minority serving institutions are, they have higher default rates.

The taxpayer actually makes money from the interest on these loans. But critics of the system say students often lose out. Not only are they deep in debt, they don't always have much to show for it.

I went to see Katherine Clark at her home in Seal Beach, Calif. She signed up for a business management degree at the University of Phoenix. She says the program included courses like "Skills for Lifelong Learning."

KATHERINE CLARK: Like they had worksheets where it was like if you're deserted on an island, and you have a list of things, put them in order of how they would be important to you. And I'm just like are you kidding? What am I ever going to use this for?

Clark didn't qualify for federal student aid. So she paid some of the bill with credit cards. The rest she owes to a private lender, Sallie Mae.

CLARK: In total, I've paid out of my pocket, $3521. And I still owe $600.

Scott: And what did you get in return?

Clark: Absolutely nothing.

The Apollo Group, which owns the University of Phoenix, made just shy of half-a-billion dollars in profit last year. But Barmak Nassirian says no one's keeping a close eye on the quality of the education for-profit schools like Phoenix provide.

NASSIRIAN: In too many instances we see keyboarding skills transcribed as Computer Science 101, we have seen working with Microsoft Windows transcribed as a Theoretical Course in Operating Systems, and the like.

Clark was so disappointed she dropped out after a course and a half. University of Phoenix officials say out of more than 420,000 current students, a few anecdotes don't tell the whole story.

But Marketplace and ProPublica have heard other troubling accounts. Tomorrow you'll hear allegations of some abusive tactics for signing students up.

With Sharona Coutts of ProPublica, I'm Amy Scott for Marketplace.

About the author

Amy Scott is Marketplace’s education correspondent covering the K-12 and higher education beats, as well as general business and economic stories.

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Jane Doe's picture
Jane Doe - Nov 4, 2009

These are humorous stories about the University of Phoenix. Only because none of it holds the student responsible for paying attention to their own finances. When one takes out student loans, the lender chosen sends out numerous financial documents to the student stating what they are responsible for. The enrollment staff at any school is trained to GUIDE the students through the process, not take ownership for the financial choices the student ulitmately makes. If I go to Best Buy and purchase a TV that the sales person labels "state of the art," but I go home and don't know how to use it, how is that their fault? For those reading this article, please understand that this is a small sample of students, who are clearly blaming their ignorance on an institution that provides a top notch education.

OUSMANE THIAM's picture
OUSMANE THIAM - Nov 4, 2009

Your report should focused on the harsh collection method used by the government to collect the student loan on defaulted student. The interest payment on student loan is beyond the comprehension of many recipients of the loan.Most of the students who default on their loans do not complete the degree at the University (Public or Private) they attended. These defaulted students have no legal recourse to challenge the government or the agency representing the government for collection for the accuracy of the loan in default.Often the amount of the loan in default is inflated two or three times the original amount of the loan for collection. It is no way out for the student.

Joel Wurnig's picture
Joel Wurnig - Nov 4, 2009

It's kind of suspect when the folks that are most vigorously defending the University of Phoenix have Phoenix, AZ addresses. Hmm. But I can't say that I agree with either side in this issue. There is a stigma in academia that "for-profit" education is simply a cash cow motivated less by the desire to educate than by greed. That's certainly the pot calling the kettle black. How many of my professors at Northwestern were able to empathize with their starving students? Public, private, for profit or non, every college in the country is raking in the dough. Is there some reason why the undergrad tuition at Harvard is almost $35,000 per academic year? Do students really learn 3 x as much at an 'Ivy League' school as they would at Texas A & M? I have absolutely no qualms with any institute of higher learning charging whatever they want for tuition. What I am concerned about is what kind of future we're going to have if people continue to place a college degree on a pedestal. Or more directly, what will our future look like if we're all too willing to pay for junk? If the price is too high... don't pay it! Caveat emptor!

Melanie Hamilton's picture
Melanie Hamilton - Nov 4, 2009

I am very disturbed by this article, for several reasons, one it is very biased journalism, the other, it's plagiarized, worse yet, not even from a credible source, from Wikipedia. Clearly the journalist is not educated in their feild or they would be aware of these things.

Further, I have attended several colleges, community colleges (Paradise Valley and South Mountain), I also attended Grand Canyon University for my bachelors, and finished my MBA with the University of Phoenix. I did face classes that I asked myself "where will I use this?", oddly enough through my work experience and life experience that question has been answered. I need to have critical thinking skills to conquer every day life, clearly the student that dropped out only after a class and half struggled in that arena. I would be interested in a follow up interview in the selected candidates of this story to see where they are in their education today.

Finally, for those bashing the thought of "for profit" I must ask, are you aware of what a "for profit" University means? I would recommend doing research before forming an opinion, although completing those foundation classes do tend to teach that skill.

Steven Bowes's picture
Steven Bowes - Nov 4, 2009

As an Enrollment Manager for the University of Phoenix, I am always surprised by the level of intelligence or the lack there of by some students. Students are always told that financial aid is consisted of both loans and grants. Give me a break, why the hell would schooling be free. Stupid, absolutely stupid.

Erin Amsden's picture
Erin Amsden - Nov 4, 2009

I am extremely disturbed by the novice reporting skills that are shown through this article. I would like to echo and earlier comment and suggest that the reporting be unbiased and balanced. This article is clearly not.

I received my undergraduate degree from Arizona State University and am currently completing my graduate degree with University of Phoenix. I did my research before I began. The degrees obtained from UoP are widely accepted and credited. In addition, many companies are turning to the university as a place for additional professional development as well an educational choice for their employees.

I think "choice" is the word that should be stressed. Education is a choice. Students choose to go to school, they choose to take out student loans, they choose to be successful or to drop out. As a person who has filled out financial aid paperwork on multiple occasions with different universities, be assured that the student should be fully aware that he or she is applying for loans. If the student is not reading the paperwork they are completing and signing, that's on them.

I have had ups and downs in all of my educational pursuits. I can't say that my experience with the University of Phoenix has been any better or worse than my time at a state school. I can assure you that I have worked very hard in every class that I have taken to get my degrees and appreciate the education that I have received from the institutions.

A note to the author - it is very suspect when you decide to make a direct comment about a university and then follow that up with a generalized "for-profit" school remark, opinion or fact!

Don Sebo's picture
Don Sebo - Nov 4, 2009

I have taught and managed programs for public and private colleges and universities and my experiences have been mixed. I have always thought that private colleges provide an important "niche" in the education marketplace for those men and women who face barriers to attending a public college or university. I believe that everyone who desires to advance their education should have that opportunity. Unfortunately,some for-profit organizations really aren't interested in student success or quality of instruction, it is all about profit. However, some public colleges and universities are guilty of the same.I have seen many low-income students leave two-year programs mired in debt and unlikely to qualify for a job that made the investment justifiable. The answer I believe is somewhere in the middle. Community vocational schools that teach needed career skills at an affordable cost that does not leave students hoelessly in-debt.

Melanie Moors's picture
Melanie Moors - Nov 4, 2009

All I am saying is don't sign anything you don't understand, and don't sign up for student loans at any school if you are going to decide to drop out.
It is your own fault. Geniuses.

Chuck Brannan's picture
Chuck Brannan - Nov 4, 2009

I think the piece was done in poor taste as well. It seemed to just target the University of Phoenix. There are very few students out their that just pay for school with cash, who doesn't take out student loans for school? That is not UOP's fault. I have many friends who are in crazy school debt who graduated from ASU and UofA, why is a piece not being done on these schools. Of course UOP is going to be receiving the majority of revenue from federal loans, they have three times the amount of students!

When the recession hit not-for profit schools suffered greatly cutting pay, and laying off employees because they relied on government funding. The Apollo Group not only did not cut pay, they were able to keep offering jobs because they are a debt free company. In an economy where job loss is being closely monitored, this seems like a pretty good thing.

I was also amazed that they interviewed a student who was aghast at the lack of quality of education the school had to offer, only to find out that she attended a class and a half and quit. Really? You could not find a student who completed their degree from UOP and asked them what they felt going through the whole program? Or how about some one who got their Undergrad at a not-for profit and then their masters at UOP and compared that?

This is bullying journalism, shame on you Market Place.

Mike Tripka's picture
Mike Tripka - Nov 4, 2009

Oops, "colloquia". After 2 graduate degrees I could at least learn to type.

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