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What do employers really want from college grads?

Mourya Abbareddy, 21, expects to graduate from Virginia Commonwealth University in Richmond, Va. in the fall.

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David Boyes is president of Sine Nomine Associates, a tech consulting firm in Ashburn, Va. "We don't need mono-focused people," he told Marketplace. "We need well-rounded people."

You hear it all the time. A college degree is pretty much a must these days in the workforce. But employers often complain that today’s college graduates aren’t cutting it. Marketplace teamed up with The Chronicle of Higher Education to find out what exactly employers are looking for from today's grads.

In our survey of about 700 employers around the country, nearly a third said colleges are doing a “fair” to “poor” job of producing “successful employees.” Despite persistently high unemployment, more than half of the employers said they had trouble finding qualified candidates for job openings.

So what gives? We decided to put one of these dissatisfied employers in a room with a soon-to-be college graduate, in a sort of mock job interview.

Our jobseeker is Mourya Abbareddy. He’s a 21-year-old senior at Virginia Commonwealth University in Richmond – a computer science and economics double major with a B average. He shows up in a jacket and tie.

David Boyes – no tie – runs a technology consulting firm called Sine Nomine Associates. That’s Latin for “without a name.” The company of about 20 full time employees is based in Ashburn, Virginia, outside Washington, D.C. It does everything from data-center design to strategic planning for businesses like IBM and Cisco.

“They’ll ask us how do we take this from an idea to something that they can actually build or do,” Boyes says. He typically hires recent college grads as entry-level analysts. They do a lot of the research to bring those ideas to life.

Boyes – one of the employers in our survey, and Abbareddy – our willing victim – take a seat at the conference table and the grilling begins.

“Is there some way where you’ve been asked to work in a team,” Boyes asks. “To take an abstract idea and make it concrete, and if so, how?”

Abbareddy has a ready example, describing a class assignment to design a computer game with a team of students.

So far, so good. Abbareddy seems to be avoiding one pitfall in the job hunt: not being prepared. Two-thirds of employers in our survey with The Chronicle said grads need work on their interviewing skills.

Boyes gets more specific. “How did you kind of develop the idea for the game?” he asks.

“We had requirements on what we had to have in the game, and then from there we just threw around ideas,” Abbareddy says.

That’s not what Boyes wanted to hear. He was hoping for something a little more...thought out.

“We find that a lot of people, and not just new college grads, people that are coming from a career, aren’t getting that skill set,” Boyes says. “How you put an idea forward, and how do you support it, how do you build it, how do you put the facts behind it? All of those things are really critical."

Boyes sounds like a lot of the employers who responded to our survey. More than half of them said they have trouble finding qualified people for job openings. They said recent grads too often don’t know how to communicate effectively. And they have trouble adapting, problem solving and making decisions – things employers say they should have learned in college.

That’s why everyone Boyes hires goes through a year-long training program. “The company puts probably about a quarter of a million dollars into every single new hire,” Boyes says. “But that’s the kind of value that we get out of it.”

The training covers basics – like how to write an effective business document – and throws in some philosophy and history

“We ask people to read Cato the Elder,” Boyes says. “We ask people to read Suetonius.”

Jobseekers, take note: you better brush up on your on your early Roman history.

“We do that because we ask them to look at the process – the abstract process – of organizing ideas,” Boyes says.

Sounds a lot like an argument for liberal arts education, at a time when more students are being told to study science and technology as a path to a career. Maguire Associates, the firm that conducted the survey, says the findings suggest colleges should break down the “false dichotomy of liberal arts and career development,” saying they’re “intrinsically linked.”

Or, as Boyes puts it: “We don’t need mono-focused people. We need well-rounded people.” And that’s from a tech employer.

For his part, Abbareddy says he’s had a well-rounded education at Virginia Commonwealth. Granted there was no Suetonius in the mix, but he took rhetoric along with courses on data structures and algorithm analysis.

And he did something else that employers really go crazy for. “I did an internship,” Abbareddy says. 

And that brings us to one of the most surprising things we learned from our survey. In industries across the board, employers viewed an internship as the single most important credential for recent grads – more than where you went to school or what you majored in. Even your grades.

“I learned a lot more from that internship than I did in school,” Abbareddy says. “It’s a different kind of learning.”

After a few more questions, things start looking up for Abbareddy. And what began as a mock interview looks like it could turn into a real job.

“You’ve made a pretty good case, in terms of somebody we’d be interested in talking to more,” Boyes tells him.

Outside, I ask Abbareddy how he thinks it went. Is Boyes is asking too much of someone fresh out of school? Did his university let him down? What he says surprises me.

“I think it’s more up to the student than the university,” Abbareddy says. “The school can’t teach you everything.”

Back inside, David Boyes says he wasn’t just being polite. He might take a chance on a job candidate like Abbareddy.

“We would have to make those investments in him,” he says. “Is he worth it? We’d have to see. But on the other hand I think he has a chance, and certainly if he sends me a resume, I would probably look at it.”

Abbareddy says he will. He graduates in the fall.

See how qualified you are….. try our simulator above and read more.

About the author

Amy Scott is Marketplace’s education correspondent covering the K-12 and higher education beats, as well as general business and economic stories.

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dboyes99's picture
dboyes99 - Mar 5, 2013

> I find it hard to believe that a company would spend $250,000 in the education for a young
> employee, when they could also give that training to a mature employee, and the company may
> benefit from the continuity.

Think of it as a lost opportunity cost when we deliberately take some of our senior people offline for a few hours a week to work with the new grads. For us, that represents a significant investment; we track those hours and treat them as an internal cost. If they're working with the grads, they're not generating revenue. That cost can easily exceed the $250K number; it's a conservative estimate based on last year's numbers (with two incoming new grads, and about 5 new professional hires of older people).

Wrt to the maturity thing, new grads still are like geese; they act like they see older geese acting and pattern themselves on what they see happening around them. It's why IBM always told us to wear a white shirt, a blue or grey suit, and a regulation tie. It was the business uniform, it set the standard for what a professional looked like. We find that working with the older folks, that "standard" rubs off. We expect it to.

We also find that the training investment is what makes people stay. So far, no one in the last 3-4 years has bailed out after training ended. Family emergency, yes. Illness, yes. Once-in-a-lifetime opportunities (being the IT manager at Amundsen Station at the South Pole for 2 years is something you don't turn down), with our blessing. But not higher pay or a competitor.

The old bond of loyalty between employee and employer still happens. You just have to put up your share of the bargain.
There I *know* we're not the norm. On the other hand, we go head to head with some of the largest companies in the world that can outspend us 100 to 1, and we win by having people that are willing to defer vacations, work on Saturdays, fly to Istanbul on 1 day's notice over Xmas -- do what it takes -- for the company to succeed in return for fair treatment, good benefits and the education they need to be a success. I'll take being seen as an outlier on corporate structure and governance versus people I can always be proud of any day of the week.

It's the Right Thing to Do.

scourtney's picture
scourtney - Mar 5, 2013

DeeDee,

In general terms, I understand (and mostly agree with) what you've said, but I'd like to set the record straight in the particular case of Sine Nomine Associates, for whom I've worked for more than a decade. I was almost 40 when they hired me, and I am not even close to being the record holder for age at time of hiring at Sine Nomine. We do hire recent grads, but we also hire people with decades of experience.

Your point is well-taken, for a lot of companies, but Sine Nomine isn't a place where that's an issue.

SVBProfessor's picture
SVBProfessor - Mar 5, 2013

David,

I am interested in developing programming for our students that focus on the Liberal Arts to augment their discipline specific focus. I also agree that there is a false dichotomy in technical skill and the Liberal Arts. But what I am interested to know more about is the increased skill set(s) that the students develop after getting this liberal training? What ways do you see them improving both in their job execution and as co-workers? Thanks

Planck's picture
Planck - Mar 6, 2013

What is really important is team work and collaboration skills. I am not so sure how well all the competition for grades affects this. But, we find students are too self-orientated and lack the kinds of collaboration skills we need.

As far as Liberal Arts goes, I think and have heard from scholars who study this, that the repetition of learning 4 or 5 new subjects 2 x a year for 2 semesters for 4 years really gives good skills for rapid learning and being able to be quick on the job. This is what is important. This is what Liberal Arts can do. And, because they are subjects apart from a technical major, they really are new subjects each time. Classes in the major build on each other over 4 years. That is a very different thing. When I was in school for example, the engineering students had a very hard time with assimilating non-technical information, writing, presenting, etc. That is the role Liberal Arts grads play in high tech and in all our tech orientated economy. In fact, commercializing a patent requires these very important things in MORE staff than the # of engineers. Relationship building, cultural awareness, intelligence gathering (i.e. listening), sourcing and assimilation of human intelligence, idea generation, communication, writing, negotiation, reasonableness, organization, team-building, service, problem-solving, etc. etc. I hope that gives the picture. These are the skills that turn patents into marketable and serviceable products with customer relationships who will send cheques. Those people don't need technology knowledge. They need human knowledge. And, anyway, most patents end up in lawyers filing drawers filed away to prevent new competition for old products.

I am not sure online learning can give these skills. I am not a fan. I am a fan of in person learning through listening, talking, speaking, reading, researching, writing, revising, presenting, group work, collaborating, etc. I am not sure learning alone on a PC or Laptop can provide the right personal skills.

dboyes99's picture
dboyes99 - Mar 5, 2013

I'd be happy to share our ideas with you. Feel free to contact me using the contact info at http://www.sinenomine.net.

It's interesting that we're getting a significant uptick in resumes since this story posted. Some of them look like real winners.

Thanks, Marketplace!

langelgjm's picture
langelgjm - Mar 5, 2013

I really appreciate David's willingness to respond to the comments posted here.

I have to wonder, though, if his approach to hiring is really representative or common. I mainly seem to read horror stories about automated HR systems designed to wade through resumes submitted online and weed them out on the basis of minor details or the "wrong" answer to a question that was posed.

David's firm also sounds more willing to invest in their new hires than most places featured in "what do employers want" stories. I came here expecting to read that employers want magical recent graduates to whom they can give entry level salaries, yet also come with 5 years of experience in a product that was released 2 years ago.

dboyes99's picture
dboyes99 - Mar 5, 2013

> I have to wonder, though, if his approach to hiring is really representative or common.

I don't think so, and that's why we get -- and keep -- the quality of new grads that we get. Being up front with the new hire that we need to polish them before they go into major projects can be difficult for people who are still young enough to believe they can singlehandedly change the world, but I think we mitigate that by having both new grads and professional hires go through the same steps and training (even though the professional hires usually have 5+ years of experience) starts the process of building teams that are bigger than the individual, and the professional hires in the training room can put the real-world experience to the content in the training courses.

I come from the era where IBM and others spent the first year of your career teaching you how to be an IBMer (with the resulting permanent deformities in personality; 30+ years later, I still put on my steel-toed CE boots and I still unconsciously choose IBM standard clothing (although Amy caught me w/o a regulation tie; bad David, no donut!). While that was unique to IBM's way of doing things, it was one of the standard methods to become an industry professional. Same with Anderson, Deloitte, etc. You spent 5 years at one of the big firms, got the polish and style while using ISPF and VS COBOL to print paychecks for Piggly Wiggly, and then got a real job doing what you loved. IBM and the others put a permanent stamp on my generation of employees by investing that first year at IBM into making you a successful employee. That investment paid off in employee loyalty. People stayed at IBM for 30+ years because they believed the promise of investment in them meant a better company.

None of those companies do that kind of thing any longer, and I think it's cost them a lot in terms of lost sales and lost reputation. IBM isn't what it used to be; I have a hard time recognizing it sometimes. The old flaws are still there, papered over, but a lot of new IBMers can't seem to see them. That's why we made a conscious decision that we would hire at least a few new grads along with the older professional hires and make the investment to train them. We get the loyalty we want, even from millenials, because they want to be somewhere where they can win by contributing, and having somewhere that sees that contribution and values it appropriately.

In our business, ideas are everything. Treating people like replaceable machine parts won't get you the next Facebook or iPhone. Machines can't distinguish the quality of an idea; it's an abstract symbol, and the computer will always confuse the object with the symbol representing the idea. You're trapped into producing only what the rules define because the Von Neumann computing model can't make that leap. We need people who *can* make that leap to the "system after next", not just what they're going to do tomorrow. Machine parts can only generate the tomorrow system. We're after more -- and we get that by investing in people.

I added a bunch of comments to the CoHE article as well; that crowd is a bit more contentious. I'd love to get in contact with some educators and get to fixing this problem. It's fixable; let's do it.

newclear's picture
newclear - Mar 5, 2013

I went to an engineering school that offered something unique when I compared my experience with what my peers shared about their schools.. Having had the opportunity to spent many months at sea in a live engine room offered extensive applications experience and critical thinking when unplanned operation scenarios arose. You learned a lot about systems interface and was forced to not only think within your specialty, but had a high level understanding about the other systems. You learned who the specialist for other items were and learned how to communicate and troubleshoot as a team. In addition to this intense hands on experience, I did an internship as well. This made it possible for me to be employed in 2008 as the market collapse started.

Now, I'm not so confident that companies fail to hire due lack of broad experience. My career has taken me to work with managing entire program risks, budget management and technical leadership. I was able to get a position in Japan and absolutely nothing from the 30+ positions I applied for in the states. More proof that companies say they looks and can't find qualified people is shown when one individual about a year ago posted an ad (albeit false) to see what the competition is like compared to himself. Turns out many of the jobless who applied had his level skill sets and above. I don't think the situation faced by myself, the fellow who did the "study" or the applicants are all exceptions to the rule.

dboyes99's picture
dboyes99 - Mar 5, 2013

newclear: can you share the name of the school? That's the kind of thing I'm looking for (in fact, I'd be interested in talking to you).

Literata's picture
Literata - Mar 4, 2013

It appears according to this story that employers are looking for highly qualified, well-educated workers who are mature thinkers. In that case, why are so many people over age 40 unemployed? I went back to college so I could be better qualified. After spending a phenomenal amount of my retirement savings, I'm now considered too old by many potential employers. It's a shame, since, like many older adults, I am past the many social and emotional crises still to confront younger graduates. Plus, I'll be able to work for at least another twenty years.

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