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VW test drives clean diesel in U.S.
Logo of a Volkswagen Phaeton
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Kai Ryssdal: There's a big auto show over in Frankfurt, Germany, this week. It is smaller than in years past. But there are still plenty of cars there and a lot of talk about the future.
Volkswagen is talking about bringing its high-end offering, the Phaeton, back to the States, possibly with a clean diesel engine this time. But are Americans ready for diesel in any form? Marketplace's Alisa Roth took that idea for a test drive.
ALISA ROTH: Quick: what comes to mind when you hear the word diesel?
Mike Omotoso is with J.D. Power. He says if you're like most Americans, you're either plugging your ears. Or holding your nose.
MIKE Omotoso: There's still a lingering prejudice against diesel in the U.S. because the diesel vehicles that were offered in the 70s and 80s were loud and dirty and unreliable.
The German carmakers would like you to reconsider. Audi and BMW are running ads for diesels here. And VW's diesel Jetta has been selling well in the U.S.
Omotoso says the Germans' new diesel technology is fuel efficient. And clean. He says in some cases, it can compete with hybrids and other alternative options.
Still, fewer than 1 percent of passenger cars sold in the U.S. run on diesel. Omotoso says that will change.
Omotoso: We expect the diesel market to grow over the next several years.
But just about every carmaker, besides the Germans, has delayed or canceled plans for new diesels for the U.S. market
Jeff Jowett tracks the auto business for the consultant firm CSM Worldwide. He says one reason is the fuel costs so much more than regular gasoline.
JEFF JOWETT: And when you combine that with inherently the cost of a diesel engine, it's more expensive than that of a gasoline engine, and you then you add the additional cost of the after treatment to clean the emissions. The business case just wasn't there for a lot of manufacturers.
Some fuel companies may be rooting for the Germans to succeed. Last year, Exxon announced it's expanding fuel production in the U.S. to make it more widely available here.
I'm Alisa Roth for Marketplace.
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If US diesel is now cleaner why is it that Audi, when I approached them recently about why they don't bring more TDi models over to the US, said it was because US diesel is still dirtier than in Europe? As a result they claim they have to build special engines for the US market, which if true makes their reticence understandable. Is it really true that the diesel on sale here is dirtier than in Europe, and why is that? There are turbo-diesels all over the roads in Europe, and they fall into all price brackets. I rented one on a recent trip to England and it was fabulous - great performance and excellent fuel economy. Easily as good as the numbers being claimed for hybrids. Turbo-diesels seem like a good short to medium term fix while hybrid and electric technologies are properly developed. If dirtier fuel is restricting choice for consumers in the US shouldn't questions be asked about why?
I have owned five VW diesels. A 1998 Jetta with 250,000 trouble free miles at 50 mpg. It was traded for a 2005 Passat, which now has 185,000 miles, and gets 38 mpg. I also have a 2000 New Beetle with 341,000 miles, at 48 mpg. My most recent addition is a 2009 Jetta which already has 42,000 miles, and averages 44 mpg. We are selling the Passat and replacing it, along with a gas powered VW Eurovan, with a V6 TDI VW Toureg. I'll never buy another gas powered vehicle. Efficiency,durability,and torque are what diesels are all about. Not to mention, they are putting them in pretty nice cars. Bring them on! Perhaps a Phaeton is in my future, if I ever strike it rich.
As others have said diesel fuel is not that much more expensive, if at all. Prices vary much more between stations than RUL, so you have to shop around. I just paid 2.49 a gallon. I bought a 2009 Jetta TDI in April and I've never owned a better car. I'm averaging 43 mpg per tank and regularly get 50+ on the highway at 65 mph. At 70 it gets around 45. The new TDI is clean diesel technology, plus it has a more powerful engine (great torque!) so it's not as fuel efficient as the older models, but I'm not complaining. I can't believe there aren't more diesel options available to US drivers.
Nice article. VW and Audi are trying to increase diesel sales but the fact is that supply is the limiting factor, not demand. About 80% of the Jetta wagons sold have been equipped with the TDI engine and it's rare to see them on dealer lots unsold. The changes for 2010 http://www.myturbodiesel.com/1000q_how_to/a5/09_10_TDIdifferences.htm have increased demand.
And Audi is leaving out the TDI engine in their best sellers, the A4 and A6 while putting it into the A3 , a model that is based on the last generation golf! http://www.myturbodiesel.com/1000q_how_to/8p/audiA3tdi_checklist.htm.
I could care less about the diesel versus gasoline debate. I'm just glad to hear that Volkswagen is bringing back the Phaeton to the USA. I own the 2004 12-cylinder gasoline version. The VW Phaeton is hands down the best luxury car available for its price point (it's the same car as the Bentley Flying Spur, but the Bentley costs over $100,000 MORE just for the badge and differently-styled sheet metal!).
The Phaeton is a 5,400 lbs tank. It is built the way Mercedes-Benz used to build its big S-class sedans back in the 1980s and 1990s before Chrysler got involved and cheapened the MB brand and quality of its components. Diesel or not, I highly recommend the VW Phaeton to any American looking for a great luxury saloon that exudes "stealth wealth" due to the VW badge. Flashy badges are so pre-financial crisis anyway.
Great article. Congratulations to the Europeans for realizing diesel is a better next step than a hybrid.
One point I would like to raise, is the diesel fuel pricing in the USA. It all goes back to our refinery technology. In the USA, we use a refining process called catalytic cracking which gives the highest amount of gasoline. In Europe, for one example, they use a process called hydrocracking to maximize their distillates, used for diesel fuel.
Compare the US distillate:gasoline ratio to Europe's and they are exactly backwards. It is our cracking process that prevents diesel from being cheaper than gasoline all year. Then you add the "BTU" tax per gallon and since diesel has more BTU, you pay more in tax.
I agree with the gentlemen who says diesel fuel price should only be compared to premium fuel price. It's a great point.
I'd love to see US domestic car brands start to think about diesels for the USA. That would be a great way for them to beat up on Japan's hybrids. I bet they sell %100 of those hybrids at a loss. Let them do it, while GM, Ford reap the rewards of clean diesel.
I own a 2005 Jeep Liberty diesel and a 2006 Jetta TDI, also diesel. We had a 2005 2.5L gasoline jetta, it averaged 22mpg and never topped 28 on a long range trip. Avg tank was 330/in town, 380-390/trips. We bought the Jeep to replace it, the last fill up was at half a tank, 241 miles, 8.8 gallons, 25MPG. This is in a 4x4 SUV compared to a compact sedan. Our Jetta TDI has never delivered less than 40 miles to the gallon, a tank range of 550 to 750 miles city to highway; I often take it 740 miles door to door to my parents, stopping only to use the rest room and eat. I laugh when I hear people from these many associations like JD Power say diesels cost more; our jetta uses a 10,000 mile oil change interval at the cost of $60, the Jeep is 5000 (7500 if infrequently used) and costs $50, these are on-par with the gasoline maintenance costs, but both cars get substantially better economy than their gas counterparts. The Jeep in partciular also has more towing power than it's V6, but was rated the same as to not tip off first time buyers that the diesel engine is just a better design.
Both our cars are not clean diesels, and we use B20 to B80 biodiesel when we can obtain it to reduce sooting and smell, but honestly, with exception to cold start, there isn't much smell. The Jeep is noisy, the Jetta is silent. Chrysler didn't do as good a job with the jeep as they could have to make it an example of a good diesel SUV, but the fact that the average V6 gets 16-18mpg, perhaps 21 on a long trip, and ours have never really gotten worse than 18MPG in its life, 28MPG driving from NC to MS and back (550-570 miles per 20 gallons of fuel), I fail to see how people can say it costs more to operate.
As of this writing diesel is about 14 cents more expensive, but we're getting 20 to 25% better fuel economy per gallon. We also emit less CO2 than the gasoline counterparts and have available alternative fuels without any engine modifications.
Why buy a hybrid? I don't see the point. Lastly, I close with my dad's 1986 Golf. It's not as noisy as many would say they are, and it does not smoke as badly as the Mercedes and GM diesels of the 80s, but it also has a whopping 550,000+ miles on the original engine. Needing three valve guides replaced this year, the first time the engine had ever been removed from the car. With that kind of long lifespan, plus it has never seen worse than 46MPG in its life (50 to 55MPG with AC on is normal for it, but this car is very very slow to accelerate), I fail to understand why people would opt for a gas-electric car when they have a much better alternative that has a 100-year test and refinement record to it.
Thanks for the article. I found it entertaining but lacking enough detail or in-depth analysis for my tastes but I am a data analyst so... My Q7 3.0 Tdi is Audi's, currently available in the US, diesel offering. I always find it puzzling when an article states a difference in fuel prices and compares the diesel price to regular unleaded. Diesel has basically one grade of #2 fuel and that is premium. It is a premium fuel and should be compared to premium gas. When comparing my Q7 3.0 Tdi to its competitors or to the two other engines available for the Q7, I found that any vehicle I would have considered run on premium gas or diesel. The Q7 3.0 Tdi was the replacement for my 2001 Volvo V70 T5. For comparison, the EPA fuel economy ratings are nearly identical (Volvo 18/24/20, Audi Q7 3.0 Tdi 17/25/20) but my real world average MPG (60% in town, 40% highway) for the Q7 3.0 Tdi is currently 23 MPG whereas the 2001 Volvo V70 T5 was 18 MPG. I find it encouraging that a vehicle that is larger in every way with all wheel drive gives me an increase of 5 MPG compared to a mid-sized wagon. The reason I bring all of this up is, when comparing these technologies, please compare them against reasonably similar offerings. An Audi buyer isn’t going to be looking at cars that run regular unleaded nor are they going to be looking at a vehicle that is athletically challenged. One thing that might be of interest is a short explanation for the sudden jump in diesel fuel prices when, historically, diesel was much cheaper than gas. When the Diesel fuel was regulated to reduce the sulfur from 500 ppm to 15 ppm, the fuel suddenly became clean enough to use in other markets around the world whereas previous 500 ppm sulfur diesel was not nearly clean enough for many of the large diesel markets in Europe. Now that the fuel is clean, demand is up and so is the cost. It’s a whole new world.
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