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The new generation of electric cars
One of about 20 electric car charging stations at the Los Angeles airport. They'll have to be retrofitted for the new generation of EV's launching at the end of this year.
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An electric car charging at the Los Angeles airport. Who says EV drivers have no sense of humor?
Plug In America co-founder Paul Scott charges his
2002 Toyota Rav 4 at the L.A. airport. The Rav 4's are left over from the first generation of electric vehicles that started in the 90's. Scott charges his car with electricity from solar panels.
Electric car advocate Chelsea Sexton can't wait to trade her GM Saturn for one of the electric cars debuting later this year.
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Kai Ryssdal: General Motors did something last quarter it hasn't done in three years: Actually, it made money. Almost a billion dollars on the back of bankruptcy-related court cost and impressive sales, the company announced today. GM's also getting ready for its biggest new-model rollout in years. The plug-in hybrid Chevy Volt debuts in November. Nissan's Leaf is going to roll out about a month later. And it could be the beginning of a radical change for American drivers -- the transition from gas stations to cars powered by rechargeable electric batteries. If we're ready.
Sarah Gardner reports from what's likely to be the number one market for electric cars in this country, Los Angeles, Calif.
Sarah Gardner: If anybody in this city knows the tortured history of electric cars in America, it's Chelsea Sexton. She was a central character in the documentary "Who Killed the Electric Car?" Sexton's one of the most vocal advocates for electric vehicles in the country. So, I was a little unsettled when she drove up to our interview in a Saturn.
Chelsea Sexton: Yes, well, that is one of the ironies. I, of all people, do not drive an electric car.
Sexton says electric vehicles, or EVs, are tough to find these days, unless, of course, you have $100,000 to plunk down on a Tesla. Or you want a used Toyota RAV4 left over from the first but failed wave of EVs in the 90s. We found about five of them charging up in a parking lot at the L.A. airport.
Sexton: There's several hundred of them still out there, still being used, still being loved, and they're holding up really, really well. They actually sell for $40,000, $50,000 still on eBay as used cars, and drivers are hanging on to them 'til there's something new available.
Twenty years ago, California tried to jump start the EV market with regulations but failed. The effort did leave the state with over a 1,000 public charging stations, though. So L.A.'s ready to plug in, right? Not quite, says Sexton.
Sexton: We actually skinned some knees in the 90s, and one of them was that every different vehicle back then used a different type of connector for the charger. And that was, as you might imagine, a royal pain.
Sexton says automakers are now uniting around one standard plug, but it doesn't fit these older charging stations, so they'll need retrofitting. The city of L.A. says it's going to do that and install more. Other cities like Seattle and Phoenix plan to do the same. But that's not the tough part.
Ted Craver: The most important thing is to make sure this is a good customer experience from day one.
That's Ted Craver, CEO of Edison International, they own Southern California Edison. Craver says most people will charge overnight at home. But last year, Edison discovered it can take more than a month to install that home capability. Since then, utilities everywhere have been working on that.
Austin Beutner heads L.A.'s public utility. He insists his customers won't be waiting.
Austin Beutner: You call us on Monday, by the next Monday, it'll be permitted, installed and you can start charging.
Utility execs are also trying to get potential EV buyers to "raise their hands" now. They want to identify clusters of homes where electric cars may all be charging at the same time. Power companies may need to upgrade transformers to avoid blackouts. If they don't, they risk a backlash against EVs. And that's the last thing Mark Duvall wants to see. He's with the Electric Power Research Institute.
Mark Duvall: Well, I drove an EV-1 and of course, those were leased so I had to give it back. I briefly considered chaining myself to it, but I felt that would come back to haunt me at a later date.
Duvall does expect some speed bumps on the road to electric transportation. But he believes this time, electric cars will stick with more than crunchy environmentalists and California car geeks.
Duvall: This is something that resonates with a lot of the American population right now. No one believes that overdependence on petroleum is a good idea.
One of Nissan's early launch markets for the Leaf is even oil-friendly Houston. And L.A. activist Chelsea Sexton says there's more consumer choice this time too -- including next year's Fisker Karma, a plug-in sports car almost as pricey as the Tesla.
Sexton: Fisker's also a $90,000 car or in that ballpark. So, again, out of my price range. Very pretty.
Al Gore has signed up for one. Sexton says she'll be happy to settle for a Nissan Leaf or a Chevy Volt.
In Los Angeles, I'm Sarah Gardner for Marketplace.
Ryssdal: Those Fiskers are going to qualify for a big federal tax credit. Throw in state incentives, if you've got them, and you can get the price down to a mere $78,000 or so.
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@Bhupen Khanolkar Even with electricity from coal by going electric 100% we would be emitting 60% less CO2, because of efficiency gains and savings in the energy chain. Read this: http://bit.ly/cYeUCh
I think if people start using electric bicycles for work it can do the trick. For people upto 15 miles from work takes about 1 hr to get to work and 1 hr back. You save on the gym. An electric pedal assisted bike costs about 2000. Assuming you need to change the battery every 14 months.
That is still cheaper than an electric car. No gas cost.
One problem with Nickel Metal Hydride batteries is that, if they are not recycled, they are toxic. The Lithium batteries, by contrast, are inert and pose less of an environmental threat. True, we don't really know how long they can last, but if you have an iPod from 5 years ago that still works, that is a good indication.
Electric cars are a good idea, but using the coal or natural gas powered electric grid to charge up electric cars is a bad idea. I am not sure about Southern California but in the Northern States like Illinois, there is not much direct sunlight to be had to allow the charging of electric cars using solar panels. Which may be one of the things to consider before plopping down the premiums to buy electric cars. Mistake me not, electric cars have several other advantages over gasoline cars such as efficiency and carbon-monoxide pollution etc, however at the current cost they are not economically viable for working class Americans. Excellent vehicles for the rich to show off their environmental concerns. Also no one is studying the environment costs of disposing the electric batteries that need to be replaced every 5 years to keep up the storage efficiency. It would be an environmental disaster unless the batteries can be disposed safely. We would not like them ending up in a landfill like our cell phones and laptop computer. Nor have them dumped in landfills in third world countries.
Mark, it takes 250 kWh of electric a month to run our 2 Toyota RAV4-EV and one conversion 1000 miles per month. To make that much electric takes a solar rooftop system of 1.3 kW at our latitude: about 6 square yards of solar panels on our rooftop, about one quarter of our total solar array of 4.2 kW.
Without a solar system, 250 kWh is about a third of the average home's usage, about what it takes to run two beer boxes.
Clearly, the idea that EVs would hurt the grid is a false idea; EVs charge slowly at night, when the grid has excess energy. Our solar panels produce electric in the daytime peak, which helps the grid both ways.
Morgan, the issue of whether or not to HAVE cars is a DIFFERENT ISSUE from what powers them. In fact, the only power source sufficient for all our energy needs is rooftop solar power, and only plug-in EVs can provide sustainable transport without giving up the freedom that we're accustomed to. Sure, walking on the sand in organic shoes is great for hermits; but we're trying to get rid of OIL-BURNING CARS. Raising the issue of whether to have cars at all is counter-productive and a red herring.
ALL the supposed plug-in cars are using THE WRONG BATTERY. Proven Nickel-Metal Hydride (NiMH) batteries that power the Toyota RAV4-EV that Chelsea is talking about, are NOT being used, setting the scene for failure if the Lithium batteries don't last even 100K miles. Our Toyota RAV4-EV have over 100 miles range still after over 100K miles of driving; and after the NiMH wear out, they COULD, IF auto companies were serious about EVs, be remelted down into new batteries, using the same metals -- no new mining needed. But this story is too ugly for facile journalists to deal with, instead they play along with the scam. Who killed NiMH? GM and Chevron, who forced Toyota to stop production in Nov., 2002.
There seems to be one angle to the electric car story that the media reports keep missing--the ongoing direct and indirect costs of "fueling" an electric car. I would like to hear more on two perspectives a) what is the cost/mile for me, the consumer, in electricity costs compared with traditional gas cars. b) how will the added electricity demand cost the electric grid and increasing electricity generation demands. In the end, we may be still burning fossel fuels to supply the electricity. I would like someone to net out how much more efficient generating electricity with coal, for example, and "fueling" my car this way, compared with fueling my car with gasoline.
You highlighted the Nissan Leaf, the Chevy Volt, and the Fisker Karma in a very promising light. You also mentioned the Tesla Roadster but you failed to mention that Tesla will be producing the Tesla Model S. The Model S will retail for about $50,000, much less than the Karma and a little more than the Volt. It will seat up to seven and will travel up to 300 miles on one charge.
There has been advances to provide the charging infrastructure and to mention two - Nissan has obtained federal funding to place, update, & work with cities for charging stations and Coloumb Technologies already has prototypes of charging kiosks and is teaming with various corporations to place those kiosks at their businesses.
We are far behind the rest of the world but I believe we can catch up.
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