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Subprime student loans, take 2
Part two of our series on for-profit universities airs tonight. Based on the reaction to the first piece, I'd say this is a hot topic.
Click here to read or listen to last night's story by Amy Scott and Sharona Coutts. Our partner ProPublica has also published Sharona's expanded print version of the series. Here's a link to my post from yesterday.
The first story generated a lot of comments, including quite a few from University of Phoenix students and employees:
"I am a former employee, "Enrollment Counselor" of The University of Phoenix. I would like to express my disgust with the manipulative and exploitative practices in which we were trained."
"All enrollment counselors go over and over and over the finance responsilblity that the student has. If any enrollment counselors lies about anything they would be fired on the spot. Maybe you should check your facts before writing something you have no-clue about."
"As an Enrollment Manager for the University of Phoenix, I am always surprised by the level of intelligence or the lack there of by some students. Students are always told that financial aid is consisted of both loans and grants. Give me a break, why the hell would schooling be free. Stupid, absolutely stupid."
"I am a proud alum of UOPX and I was not pressured into enrolling. I took responsibility to assure the school's accreditation was up to par and I understood what I was signing upon enrollment. I am thankful for-profit school exist because I cannot attend a traditional university due to my work schedule."
"I teach at a community college and at a private (non-profit) university in Southern California. I have had many students who were survivors of University of Phoenix and similar institutions, stuck with sizable debts and degrees that are despised by the academic and professional world."
I hope the focus on the University of Phoenix doesn't muddle the larger issue here. Phoenix is the biggest of the for-profit schools. It gets the most attention and is facing legal battles over the legality of its policies. Not all for-profit schools have the same reputation. There is a place in education for well-run for-profit, online schools. But many of them do have a big problem with student loan defaults. And that, as Sharona points out at ProPublica, is the big picture:
"Students who default on their student loans have their Social Security benefits intercepted, have their tax returns intercepted, have their wages garnished" and "are ineligible for any other federal benefit program until they arrive at a repayment solution," said Nassirian, of the association that represents college admission officers. "They are ruined for life."
Taxpayers don't suffer because, although the public underwrites the system by providing the loans, the program makes money overall, according to Department of Education estimates.
President Obama wants more people to go to college. But previous administrations wanted more people to own a home, too. And look what happened with that. The president would do well to make sure he know what's happening out there and why.
Catch part 2 of the series tonight on Marketplace.
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I typically enjoy listening to Marketplace during my morning and afternoon commute. Obviously, as an enrollment counselor for the University of Phoenix I was extremely interested in the latest series regarding for-profit schools and the problem of student loan defaults. I have to say, I think the journalist working this piece had her mind made up from the beginning and was in no way interested in reporting a fair and balanced story. I don’t have a problem with Marketplace airing a story that explores both sides of the issue but it was obvious that the slant of this story was to undermine the integrity and quality of U o P’s academic programs and business practices. Where were the sound bites from students who loved their experience at U of P? Or the ones who benefited tremendously from earning their degree? Did you talk to any of them regarding THEIR decision to finance their education? I can tell you as an enrollment counselor I have never pressured any student from taking out student loans without understanding the responsibility that comes with it. We have trainings all of the time about responsible borrowing. Also, as enrollment counselors we are trained to support the students in their academic success. We are there for them when they have questions and when they want to share their latest success stories. I am sorry for the students in your story who did not understand what they were doing. It is my hope that U of P and its students will come out of this stronger than ever.
I, too, typically enjoy listening to Marketplace. But I am at odds as to why National Public Radio, the often self-proclaimed pillar of objective jounalism, would air such a one-sided story.
As an employee of UOP, I know first-hand that much of what was reported in the story is based on 1. a limited number of accounts that are not representative of the whole, and 2. events that have long-since been resolved.
If UOP was such a bad place to get an education, why would we continue to receive accreditation from the Higher Learning Commission of the North Central Association? This, by the way, is the same agency that accredits the universties where most of us (including your reporters) received our degrees.
If UOP produces degrees that business and industry does not take seriously, then why do many of our graduates have good jobs in a number of successful fields--including executive positions with several Fortune 500 companies?
If UOP is such a bad place to get a degree, then why does the data show that, on several academic indicators, our students perform as well as, if not better, than students who attend traditional universities?
To balance things out, I look forward to hearing stories on public, non-profit universities where college presidents who have finance--not education--degrees are also refered to as CEO's, where student recruitment has been replaced with "competetive marketing strategy," where cafeterias have been replaced with food courts, and where the highest paid employee is usually a coach.
Until we see the other side of the story revealed, the reporting shown in this feature has tainted the reputation of NPR. I will unlikely not listen to Marketplace again.
This story is political propaganda by a pro socialist/liberal, and under informed group of individuals. You all should be ashamed of this article that is not journalism, but slander. You do not even have both sides of the story, which true journalism offers. Maybe FOX News should school you all on how to do the news since their ratings are much higher.
Hi Scott,
Fear of change, and naiveté! That is what it is. People working in or for traditional universities are terrified of change in the paradigm of delivery of education and learning in the wake of the information revolution, just as horse owners were afraid of the motor engine, which gave rise to the motor vehicles and trains in the wake of industrial revolution. Their anxiety is understandable. This anxiety however did not mean that the change did not happen because they were afraid. Motor vehicles came, transformed the way humans moved, and transported their effects. The advent of the engine completely changed the way people did things, much to the chagrin of horse owners. It spurred a completely new economy that was intrinsic to mechanization, and nothing to do with the practices of the past of owning horses. The use of term horsepower in vehicles today has nothing to do with having a horse.
In the same way, the traditionalists of education can kick, scream, and shout as much as they want about changes taking place in education delivery, but the information technology revolution is here. The University of Phoenix is burning the trail of new possibility of delivery of education and learning which is in perfect alignment with the information technology revolution. UoP is so successful because its strategies for delivery of education is so neatly aligned with the information age. To kick and scream against a change whose time has come, as the people at ProPublica did in this article is plainly naive.
ProPublicans and such people who reject an obvious reality are like the horse owners refused the reality of the motor engine. They can bury their heads in the sand as much as they want. The truth is humans know exactly what they need to do, and do not rely on smear press to decide where to go for a service that is so aligned to their needs.
Students choose the University because of the quality of education that is in perfect alignment to their needs in the information age. To have a 440,000 student population means that the University is doing something right, That is a major endorsement in you ask anyone.
I would not worry about a few people who are too thick to comprehend that the game of education has completely changed, and we are not going back to archaic exclusionary educational paradigms that denied access to education to brilliant people around the world. People at ProPublica, wake up to the present, and stop spreading fear, because of your own ignorance.
Is anyone else sick of our government subsidizing fraud? Here, it's most egregious because it allows the fraudsters to prey on our youth, but its apparent throughout our society and economy.
To those who defend the systemic fraud here as a fine price to pay for allowing lower income people opportunity, please point to the people who have benefited from their for-profit degrees, rather than speaking in general terms. Does UOPX provide value? If the degree is worth its price, please provide examples. There seem to be plenty of examples of aggrieved ex-students and disgusted ex-employees.
I am a graduate of UOP, and there is no way the enrollment counselor pressure me to attend this University. Not only have I gotten the education I needed, but the relationships with my classmates, peers, collegues, and friends that I can carry with me always.
The curriculum at UOP is very difficult and they expect much more than the traditional university. Don't try to bring down UOP or the degree until you yourself has gone through the program.
Everyone at UOP has been very supportive, especially the facilitators, in helping the students make a difference in our own lives.
I am a student at University of Phoenix. I beleive my education is excellent, in addition to the excellent education, I am able to continue caring for my family and earning a living while getting the education I need to advance in the workplace.
It must be nice for all those people who are critics of U of P to have been able to attend traditional Universities/Colleges, or they must be extremely angry that they did not explore the opportunity for distance learning and had to suffer through a brick-and-morter learning facility to get the same quality of education.
I appreciate good journalism, unfortunately, this is biased journalism. This story did not use a large enough sample size of students or employees and did not follow good jouralism techniques to qualify the pool it interviewed.
Sadly, the work of this author is just more tarnish against the distance learning opportunity which has been proven to be more effective than tradition classroom style alone. Maybe the author should also have reviewed the studies by the Dept. of Education and included those statistics.
Very disappointing.
I was a student of U of P,
For 1 year as a full time student. Talking to employers I got the feeling that the reputation of U of P's degree wasn't taken to seriously for the type of salary I was trying to reach so I transferred out, although there are some classes that can be put in equal quality, for the most part, (I say 80%) my "brick-and-morter" school has a way higher quality of education then U of P. I realize now why reputation of the school is important. Those who say it's the same quality are full of themselves.
As a licensed professional counselor, I take great exception to the common practice of labeling admission recruiters, financial aid staff and for-profit sales people as "counselors". Counseling is a profession that requires masters' level training, professional licensure, and on-going professional development. Delivering a sales pitch to potential students, pressuring them to enroll,encouraging them to take on more debt than they can afford--none of this fits into any definition of the ethical practice of counseling. Please don't refer to these people as "counselors".
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