So... what exactly do you do again?
Anyone ever tell you your job is a joke? Professor and commentator Dan Drezner hears it all the time, especially from his little brother, Jay.
Dan Drezner, left, and his not-as-famous brother Jay Drezner. (Jay Drezner)
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TEXT OF COMMENTARY
Kai Ryssdal: You know those people who you know have jobs, but you're not exactly sure what they do?
Commentator and university professor Dan Drezner gets that vibe a lot, especially during the summertime. His number one critic is his little brother Jay.
Jay Drezner: Jay Drezner.
Dan Drezner: Hey, it's your brother. How you doing?
Jay: Oh, good. What's up, Dan?
Dan: Oh, not much. Mom called the other day.
Jay: Oh. She doing OK?
Dan: She's fine. You know, a little worried about the price of brisket, but besides that, OK. She asked if I was teaching this summer.
Jay: Aw, jeez. Why is she asking you that?
Dan: She does this every summer. You know this. She always asks me, am I teaching? I say no and I still have to say that I'm doing work.
Jay: Sometimes that's difficult to justify with what you do for a living, Dan.
Dan: You know perfectly well, my little brother, that I do a fair amount of work over the summer even if it's not including teaching.
Jay: Oh, wait, that's right. You're doing "research."
Dan: Dude, I can hear the air quotes over the radio. I've been a professor for 11 years. You know how this works.
Jay: Oh, wait a second. Explain it to me now how difficult your "job" is?
Dan: Fine, I confess. Without teaching, there's nothing for me to do. Well, except for the book manuscript that I'm editing. Oh, and the book manuscript I'm writing. Oh, and the many conference papers I need to write. And the grant proposals I need to prep. And the multiple journal articles and book manuscripts to review. There's the university committee I need to serve on, the professional committee I need to serve on. I got a lot of work.
Jay: When I think about what you do for work -- and I'll give you credit for what you do in the classroom because that's actually teaching students and that's a service that's demanded for and they pay for that with their tuition -- but what I really don't understand are all those things that you theoretically do -- and I do mean "work" at outside of teaching. How many office hours do you hold, Dan, for your students?
Dan: Maybe two a week.
Jay: Two hours? OK, and how many hours do you spend lecturing? Around five? Six?
Dan: Six.
Jay: OK, we're up to eight now and that's good for, let's say, one shift at Starbucks. When do you go to the pool? There's got to be time for the pool. My job, when I was in investment banking, I worked 80 hours a week. Now I'm at a hedge fund. I can't just take off a month and decide to come back to see where my portfolio is. It doesn't work that way.
Dan: By the way, the sound you're hearing right now is the world's smallest violin playing for you.
Jay: Well, Dan, I have to say, I do make more money than you. And I do get our parents better gifts as a result. And you know what? I think they love me more.
Dan: That was cold, man.
Ryssdal: Dan Drezner is a professor of International Politics at Tufts University. His brother Jay works in finance in New York City.
Comments
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From Guangzhou, China, 08/16/2008
A very interesting conversation. I am a professor in the university and sometimes I myself is puzzled by the value of our own work and research.
From Providence, RI, 07/25/2008
This was an interesting piece, but it completely missed the economic story here. Professors at most large universities in the US are helping universities to compete for a large, but limited, pool of research funds available from the federal government and private foundations. These research funds (and the overhead costs that universities skim off-the-top) add up to a significant portion of the annual budgets for many universities. At these same universities professors are hired, fired or retained based largely on their ability to successfully perform research, which is judged at least in part by their ability to acquire research funding. Professors are even given financial incentives (such as up to 1/4 of their annual salary) for bringing in research funds. There are certainly many other reasons for conducting research, but the economic motivations (for both professors and universities) are rarely appreciated by people working outside of a university setting.
From Wichita, KS, 07/25/2008
What a great piece. I took this as brothers ribbing each other and not as a bashing of professors. The stereotypical "good life" of a professor that takes off all summer and every "break" during the year is hard to believe anymore given the budgetary constraints of educational institutions at all levels.
The association of parental love with better gifts is classic material between me and my two brothers.
From Oakland, CA, 07/24/2008
I'm faculty at a university that is perceived to be fairly important in the international scheme of things. I get the same static...when are you getting a real job. Let's just talk a little bit about what I do during work hours. I come in each morning and deal with email...many of which involve administrative issues that as recently as 10 years ago would have been dealt with by staff. While I'm doing my email (because I keep regular hours), I am likely to be interupted multiple times by students, staff, and members of the public who have different needs or questions. I have an open door policy and see myself as responsible to each of those constitutants. By the way, dealing with students can range from reading term paper drafts, discussing current events, course material, arguing over grading criteria, or wiping their tears as they explain their latest break up. Students can feel very isololated at "the big university", and those of us who make ourselves accessible end up preforming a lot of nurturing duties, I do see it as part of the service I provide.
I teach two classes each semester...but information changes constantly, and it is years before I teach a course again, generally. Students expect to be entertained as well as educated, and constructing powerpoints, projects that will be interactive and challenging, while nurturing critical and analytical thinking skills, well, it can take a lot of time. I generally prep 4-5 hours for every hour of lecture--even for courses I've taught before.
What else do I do? Money is tight--so undergraduate and graduates alike are constantly applying for funding--and all those applications need letters of rec. Those of us who keep an open door, we write lots of letters--for fellowships, for grad, law, medical, business schools and jobs. Admission standards are high, letters need to be personalized to be effective. A lot of time is spent writing letters.
Money is tight...a lot of administration is left to faculty--grad advising, undergrad advising, curriculum committee, at the department, college, and university level. Heck of a lot of administrative service happens. By the way, technically, 50% of my time is SUPPOSED to be dedicated to research--which is supposed to be generating grant or contract money, which actually pays for the running of the university since our state allocation is so low. Do I get to spend 50% of my time on research? Hell, no. That's what weekends and summer breaks are for.
I'm not complaining--like any educator, I believe I am doing something useful, I'm helping to educate our citizenry-an absolute necessity in a representative democracy. With my research, I believe I am expanding human knowledge. Nope, won't ever make as much as those private sector folks, but I wake up feeling useful and relevant--and work damn hard as part of the bargain.
From Wilton, CT, 07/24/2008
As a staff employee at a community college, it never ceases to amaze me how self-important professors are as evidenced by James Carter's remarks that he has a PhD in mathematics and has to do research AND teach! A professor's day during the busy school year is half of what staff does at any college and one-quarter of what the business world does with their feeble undereducated minds. Professors have the cushiest jobs. Most have PhDs in a subject, but no education credentials on how to teach! Then, they bask in their ivory towers and console each other on how much work they do.
07/24/2008
As an educator this story was absolutely offensive. Educators are already underpaid, not respected and not understood. Your story did absolutely nothing but sponsor the misinformation by the public about the profession.
From charleston, SC, 07/24/2008
Hi. I really enjoyed the piece about Dan Drezner. I've been a mathematics professor for 16 years now and I get the same static from some people about how easy I have it compared to what they have to do regarding their ``real'' jobs. My response to their criticisms
is that yes, it's a great life. I can't understand why most people don't choose to do it. All you have to do is earn a PhD in mathematics and then get a job at a college or university doing research and teaching. They usually back down after that revelation.
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